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Carter WCFB Carbs?? What else fits

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by socal_wrench, Dec 14, 2005.

  1. socal_wrench
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 258

    socal_wrench
    Member

    I have a 57-61 dual quad manifold I have to put on the Model A....
    I don't want to drop like $1000 to get and rebuild stock carbs...
    What can I put on here that will run ok but not kill the pocket?



    Thanks
     
  2. twofosho
    Joined: Nov 10, 2005
    Posts: 1,153

    twofosho
    Member

    Only thing I can think of that might be close would be 4GC Rochester (a lot of GM up though 65) or D series AFB Carter (57-8 Pontiac and some Mopars). At least you shouldn't have the Corvette types running the prices up. Too many years ago since I screwed with this stuff, even then, not much (was into TriPower Pontiac's with Rochester 2GC's), sorry.
     
  3. Isn't the WCFB the small base 4 bbl carb? I am running Holley 4000's, teapot, 2-4 setup on my T-bird same bolt pattern as the WCFB I'm told.
    Probably not any less expensive to get and rebuild though
    [​IMG]
     
  4. twofosho
    Joined: Nov 10, 2005
    Posts: 1,153

    twofosho
    Member

    Damn, that Y block is beautiful. I hope it's going into a pre WWII car with an open engine compartment and no hood.
     

  5. It's in my T-bird
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,735

    George
    Member

    The Carter AFB/ Edelbrock carbs are drilled for both patterns.
     
  7. CadillacKid
    Joined: Oct 15, 2002
    Posts: 1,507

    CadillacKid
    Member

    I ran into this same problem with the weiand dual quad intake on my 390 caddy mill. You can get aluminum adapter plates to go from the WCFB bolt pattern to the big Carter AFB/ Edelbrock 4 barrel bolt pattern. I will show you a picture of the ones that I used. You can get them from Speedway....the part number for them is #7202085. I used trans-dapt carb adapters, but these appear to be the same thing. You have to modify them slightly to make 'em work, but here ya go...

    The four countersunk holes (one on each corner) line right up with the bolt holes on a WCFB intake manifold. You need to use these holes to bolt the adapters to the intake, and then bolt the carb to the adapter. There are only two problems...
    1.You have to drill the holes out in the centers so that a bolt will pass through them, but you have to leave enough countersunk material for the screw you use to bite on.
    2. The contersunk are on mine were not coutersunk quite far enough, so you need to sink the hole edges a little further.

    You will need to use a square head allen screw to do this also, as it's circumference is round, unlike a traditional bolt. If you were using a bolt, the countersunk area would have to be considerably bigger to clear the corners of the eight sides of the bolt head and your socket. If you made the hole big enough to use a regular bolt, it also might compromise the integrity of the piece. You also need to make sure that the allen screws that you use tighten up so that the tops of them are just below the carb mounting surface of the carb adapters. This way, you can be certain that they are not interfering with the carb installation (i.e. causing vacuum leaks, etc.). You can also cut down the allen screw heads compensate for a lack of countersunk depth. Once you have everything drilled and mocked up, put down a gasket, bolt down the carb adapter, another gasket on top of it, bolt down the carb and whamo! You're in business! I used two new Carter AFB 600 cfm carbs from Summit on my caddy mill, and I've been using this adapter plate set up for about 5 years now and it works great! Good luck!
     

    Attached Files:

  8. socal_wrench
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 258

    socal_wrench
    Member

    If I' gonna havto use adapters that is looking like the ones I will be needing. Thanks guys
     
  9. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 8,628

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    The rochester 4gcs won't fit on the factory Corvette intake; the fuel bowls run into each other.
     
  10. ENGINENUT
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 41

    ENGINENUT
    Member

    I'm speaking from memory (reliability??)but I once got involved in the carb scene of the 50's--mid 60's.The Carter,Rochester,Stromberg,and Holley thru 54 (Holley thru 56) used the small square pattern like 53-54 olds,cad, buick.Then they went to the square larger like 55-56 chev.The Ford Holley, and Ford carb had a larger square like 60-61 Ford.I have redrilled the pad on Holley and Carter to fit another pattern.Small carter AFB or AVS would be my choice.Mopar used some of the smallest AFBs I have seen on early 318 and 273.The 2 x 4 chevy carbs had a number on the venturi (looking thru the air inlet) of 15/16,the 220 & 230 HP was marked 1, the 250 HP 348 & 327 marked 1 1/16 and I have seen 1 1/16 in some 55 265's (probably 195 HP).The smaller carbs give great throttle response and good fuel economy even when not used progressively.Have fun.
     
  11. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]

    My Y block Ford set up. I think you may be shopping at the wrong places. I did pay the outrageous price of 60 bucks for one of the carbs at Charlotte because it was a match for the one that came with the manifold. My local parts house got me the kits the same day based on the tag#.

    These may be Oldsmobile. I'm not sure. Stay away from the Chevy carbs. The restorers drive them up. Matching carbs for the 283-270HP are off the charts. Who needs numbers anyway? As long as it runs ok I'll be happy.

    I got the intake with one of these carbs and another mismatched WCFB form Ebay for 250$. I thought the intake was worth that price.
     
  12. CadillacKid
    Joined: Oct 15, 2002
    Posts: 1,507

    CadillacKid
    Member

    No problem. Oh, and BTW, I don't run my carbs proggressively...and I picked up 4 miles to the gallon AFTER i put the dual quads on and took the single 4 barrel off....17 miles to the gallon out of a '59 Cadillac ain't bad!
     
  13. ENGINENUT
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 41

    ENGINENUT
    Member

    Still remembering: WCFB= white cast four barrel--aluminum top,zinc die cast bowl,cast iron base--small square or large square bolt pattern
    AFB=aluminum four barrel--all aluminum-bowl and base integral-large square bolt pattern & maybe Ford
    AVS=air valve secondarys-is afb with refinement of velocity valve(looks like choke)in the top of secondarys so the carb can have BIG secondarys and still not bog when floored.
    Our favorite retrofit for that old Ford "slobber box" and common Hollys was a new AFB($32.00) from a 57-58 Buick just redrill base with 2 holes added.No we didn't use the built in Buick switch for a starter actuation with the accelerator.
    Have seen AFB as factory equipment on 58 Ford and Merc.
    WCFB has problem because of main jet location-fuel slosh in bowl can cause starvation on HARD cornering and acceleration.I had a intresting lesson on that when after a drastic gear ratio change on a coupe with a 270 sbc, if I roll out and floor it, about half way through first it shut down then came back alive maybe two times this would happen if you keft it open.In the higher gears it would go forever and not miss a beat.Keep in mind now this problem didn't exist before the gear change..Turns out increased G forces caused the fuel to rush to back of bowl(s) uncovering the secondary jets.Raising the fuel level on secondary cured our ills, we sure didn't want to give up our new gear.Hell life ain't never easy for a rodder if it was too simple all the girls would be doing it.
     

  14. True, I put an Edelbrock 600 cfm carb on an old early '60's intake from a 250 hp 327 that had an old Rochester 4GC (or so I was told). The Edelbrock's inner set of holes matched up perfectly on that old iron intake. Hope this is of some help.
     
  15. RacerRick
    Joined: May 16, 2005
    Posts: 2,756

    RacerRick
    Member

    WCFB - Will Carter Four Barrel. I have never seen a large square bolt pattern. What would that be originally on?
     
  16. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,735

    George
    Member

    My 55 Hemi used WCFB carbs. I used a squeeze plate, larger carb bores to the smaller intake bores. Forgot who the maker was. Instead of all the stuff described earlier I removed the original carb studs, installed longer ones, then drilled the matching holes in the plate & dropped it on. No problem! The 4 carb hold down nuts secure the whole thing. If you want to you can drill & tap the intake & use wedge shape head machine screws to secure plate to intake.
     
  17. Get a pair of rebuilt AFB carbs ,for example a 67 Buick with 300" v8, had small bore afb's that will fit for you....a pair-rebuilt with chokes ought to run about 400 dollars or a little more,thats about the lowball way to go..... check with a parts house.....
     
  18. ENGINENUT
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 41

    ENGINENUT
    Member


    You're right Racer Rick, that larger bolt pattern is rectangular (approx 4.2 x 5.6) but I think the small pattern was not used as OEM after 54 by Carter or Rochester.And I never saw the factory use the holes some AFB and AVS had along side this large pattern mentioned above but on the Buick AFB I mentioned 2 of them were right for the Ford and Holley pattern as on the 1961 375 HP 390.


    Caution: This info is limited by my limited experience and memory.
     
  19. ENGINENUT
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 41

    ENGINENUT
    Member


    This is the small bolt pattern as on early Buick,Olds,Cad,Stude,Etc. and matches the Holly pattern which I believe was standard on the 2 x 4 T-Bird 312.(I believe rated 270 HP in 57)Remember the wierd looking Hollys with the float bowl elevated into the air stream as on 54-56 Ford with 4 bbl.
     
  20. hammeredabone
    Joined: Apr 18, 2001
    Posts: 737

    hammeredabone
    Member

    Joe, need carbs? call me! BTW that manifold is a 56 vette.
     
  21. Mr. Bennett
    Joined: Sep 8, 2006
    Posts: 6

    Mr. Bennett
    Member

    The problem of fuel starvation can be eliminated with the use of an angle plate that tilts the WCFB forward. It looks kind of funny but it works well.I did this with my Super Stocker that had a WCFB on it And it solved the problem. WCFB stands for Will Carter Four Barrel.

    Mr. Bennett
     
  22. Vance
    Joined: Jan 3, 2005
    Posts: 2,135

    Vance
    Member
    from N/A

    Do you still have carbs that will fit the 59-61 Vette intake?

    Vance
     
  23. HotRodFreak
    Joined: Mar 25, 2005
    Posts: 1,935

    HotRodFreak
    Member

    I have and used the aftermarket plate adapters for wcfb/carter bolt pattern to square bore carbs like Edelbrocks.
    My 327 chev engine got 21 mpg with 500 edelbrock
    on stock iron early chev intake.
    I also prefer using two inch carb spacers to make more room for linkage and increase fuel atomization.
     
  24. Boones
    Joined: Mar 4, 2001
    Posts: 9,691

    Boones
    Member
    from Kent, Wa
    1. Northwest HAMBers

    whats the difference between the 5'6 and '57 - 61 dual 4brl corvette intakes ?? since we are on the subject
     
  25. HotRodFreak
    Joined: Mar 25, 2005
    Posts: 1,935

    HotRodFreak
    Member

    I used the adapter plates from stock chev iron carter intake to square bore edelbrock 500 on a 327 4 speed posi car and got 21 mpg on trips driving faster than legal. I also installed 2" risers for more linkage space and better atomization.
     
  26. HotRodFreak
    Joined: Mar 25, 2005
    Posts: 1,935

    HotRodFreak
    Member

    OOOOPS! didn't realize the first post got on.
     
  27. I used Carter a=AFB off of a 62 Chrys 413 on my 57 Desoto 341 Hemi with dual 4,s. They fit the bolt pattern and the butterflies clear the holes in the manifold. Good luck

    OLD HEMI
     
  28. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,735

    George
    Member

    Post # 1! Do an intro!:D
     
  29. Vance
    Joined: Jan 3, 2005
    Posts: 2,135

    Vance
    Member
    from N/A

    George, are you serious? This thread is a year old and Socal Wrench has been around since March of '01. There was a server crash a while back that wiped out a lot of the older intros. I know, because that happened about three hours after I posted my into and I freaked out and reposted it to avoid the Intro Police at the time.

    Vance
     
  30. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 8,628

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    Only that the '56 intake had four separate holes on the carb mounting surface, whereas the '57-'61 had two of the holes (one front and one rear, diagonal from each other) blended together.
     

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