Register now to get rid of these ads!

car wont start/64 ford

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by russ1403, Jan 3, 2010.

  1. russ1403
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 414

    russ1403
    Member

    well today my cousin in law picks up a 64 ford wagon,big block/auto, and it wont start with the key but will start if we jump it at the starter soleniod. it does turn off with the key but just wont crank with the key,anybody got ideas what would cause this? any info would be appiciated:)

    ps: neither me or my cousin in law are electrically inclined when it comes to chasing done problems with cars electrical wiring.
     
  2. Greezy
    Joined: May 11, 2002
    Posts: 1,440

    Greezy
    Member

    Ignition switch, would be a good start.
     
  3. Fighter-of-Wars
    Joined: Nov 3, 2008
    Posts: 293

    Fighter-of-Wars
    Member

    perhaps a new starter solenoid? Me and my dad would do this on his ford Pickup. Have a person get in the car, turn the key to the start position and hold it and have another person go and tap on the solenoid. If this gets it to start then you have a bad solenoid.
     
  4. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 3,185

    sdluck
    Member

    Try pulling up on the shifter with the left hand and turning key with right hand. Common problem neutral safety switch is out of adj or worn
     

  5. duste01
    Joined: Nov 5, 2006
    Posts: 1,213

    duste01
    Member

    worth repeating.....
     
  6. 54 savoy
    Joined: Jan 10, 2009
    Posts: 424

    54 savoy
    Member

    look at the starter and chase that wire back to ign.maybe a break somewhere,i assume the accesseries come on when you turn the key?
     
  7. russ1403
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 414

    russ1403
    Member

    cool,,thanks guys,,i got things to look at and try now:)
     
  8. Check to see if there any power to the solenoid when the key is turned to the start position. If this is the fender mount solenoid that you are jumping one of the wires connected to the top of the solenoid should have 12v. to it when the key is in the start position. Check the connections on the solenoid to make sure they are clean and tight.The push on wires on the top some times have to be crimped a little to make them tight.
     
  9. russ1403
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 414

    russ1403
    Member

    yes all the accessories do come on,but it just wont crank with the key
     
  10. russ1403
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 414

    russ1403
    Member

    yes it is the fender mounted solenoid,,ill have to check the connections,,thanks:)
     
  11. TooManyFords
    Joined: May 21, 2008
    Posts: 553

    TooManyFords
    Member
    from Peotone IL

    Just put a neutral safety switch in mine. Was doing the same thing. It is mounted on the left side of the steering column. Spring was missing on mine.
     
  12. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As Sdluck said, try pulling up on the automatic shift handle with your left hand while turning the key with your right. Fords are famous for the neutral safety switch being out of adjustment. If you have a test light you can check to see if you have power to the neutral switch when you turn the key to start. If you have power in and not out when it is in the right spot bad switch. As a test you can make up a little jumper wire and bypass the switch in the plug to see if you get power to the solenoid when you turn the key. It's a process of elimination, you just have to eliminate things that aren't a problem one at a time.
     
  13. russ1403
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 414

    russ1403
    Member

    awsome,thanks,,ill have tocheck it out asap:)
     
  14. russ1403
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 414

    russ1403
    Member

    cool,thanks for info,,ill be taking everbody imput and checking everything out asap
     
  15. Chuck R
    Joined: Dec 23, 2001
    Posts: 1,347

    Chuck R
    Member

    ballast resistor
     
  16. russ1403
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 414

    russ1403
    Member

    ok ill put that on the list of things to check out,,thanks
     
  17. Domino
    Joined: Jul 2, 2009
    Posts: 529

    Domino
    Member

    I am going to say neutral safety switch also. all of the old Ford cars and trucks I have owned have been like this.
     
  18. Hot Turkey
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 1,237

    Hot Turkey
    Member

    You gota be a mechanic to own a Ford, but I love em!
     
  19. Domino
    Joined: Jul 2, 2009
    Posts: 529

    Domino
    Member

    The small wire at the solenoid(red w/blue stripe) isn't getting power. Check it with a test light while turning the switch to the start position. If you trace the wire from the switch to the neutral safety switch you will find that is the break in the circuit. Try jumping it there with a short piece of wire. It should start.
     
  20. Rowdy_one
    Joined: Jun 14, 2008
    Posts: 85

    Rowdy_one
    Member
    from Oh

    Most common problem is either the solenoid or the neutral switch. Ive changed a lot of ford solenoids over the years.
     
  21. russ1403
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 414

    russ1403
    Member

    thanks for the tip.ill be checking that out asap:)
     
  22. TooManyFords
    Joined: May 21, 2008
    Posts: 553

    TooManyFords
    Member
    from Peotone IL

    Nope, dont have one.
     
  23. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The car runs if he jumps the solenoid. It isn't the ballast resistor.

    Too many people answer before they fully read the question or the other answers.
     
  24. russ1403
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 414

    russ1403
    Member

    ok,good to know,,i and my cousin in law do not have much of any knowledge on fords of this era,,trying to learn about it as much as we can,,thanks:)
     
  25. russ1403
    Joined: Mar 9, 2009
    Posts: 414

    russ1403
    Member

    thanks,,now im confused if this car does or dosent have a ballast resistor,,,my cousin in law need to get a book for sure,,he just picked it up tonight and we were just trying to get it started and driving to see what other problems it has,,,thanks everyone for the input:)
     
  26. Domino
    Joined: Jul 2, 2009
    Posts: 529

    Domino
    Member

    The car in question should not have a ballast resistor. Fords of that era used a resistor wire that was in line with the wire that runs from the ignition switch to the coil. Regardless of nomenclature or location, it would have no effect on the starter engaging. It is part of the ignition side of the switch(red w/green stripe) and not the start side.
     
  27. socalkenny
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 25

    socalkenny
    Member

    Neutral safety switch or wiring open.Look for the switch on the steering column, it may just be out of adjustment, try lifting on the shifter while holding the key in the start position. Good luck on the new project and Happy New Year.
     
  28. if its a automatic 99% chance its the neutral safety switch. its mounted on the column and it might simply be loose.
     
  29. fastrnu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2009
    Posts: 739

    fastrnu
    Member
    from shelton,wa

    Pull the little wire off of your solenoid. Thats the 16Guage one with the little black 90 degree boot on it. Ground your idiot tester and poke the pointy end into the above said afore mentioned boot. Now tun the key to the start position. Lite goes on bad sloenoid. Lite no go on good chance bad switch. Ford switches have shorted out on me before. (Only if more than 2 hours from home)lol Usually its the run contact not the start contact. If you are jumping the solenoid and it cranks 99% of the time its the solenoid.
     
  30. torchmann
    Joined: Feb 26, 2009
    Posts: 787

    torchmann
    BANNED
    from Omaha, Ne

    I had a 2 years of shop class and a year of electronics engineering at the university, maybe I can help:
    go get some popcorn first...

    Inside the solenoid is a metal copper disk. Normally, it doesn't touch anything. It's spring loaded to stay away from the contacts. You have 2 heavy contacts, one for the battery cable and one for the starter cable.
    There is also a small contact that connects a ballast resistor bypass circuit.

    The other small connection on the solenoid is the wire that completes the electromagnet circuit that creates magnetism that pushes an iron piston against the force of the spring thrusting the copper disk against the 3 contacts I spoke of above.

    I cannot remember if the juice goes from the battery cable through the winding to the switch and to ground or the other way...
    Okay I'm remembering when I jump one it's from the battery terminal to the ignition wire post so the juice would have to be going from the battery, to the fuse block(the ignition is not fused, just runs with the rest of the wires) to the ignition switch then to the solenoid to trip it.
    Yeah, that's the way it goes...

    The chassis power is usually drawn off the battery post of the solenoid and goes from there to the fuse block

    That way all that juice doesn't have to go through the little key switch. it's a simple relay circuit, it's a remote switch.

    Ignition points running full voltage will spark more and burn up faster. they put a resistor in the circuit to damp the circuit. it damps both voltage and current which are mathematically interrelated. That way 2 guys can argue and both be right.

    Another thing that comes in handy is knowing the coil circuit.
    A coil multiplies voltage.
    A low voltage strong current running through a primary winding with a few turns creates a magnetic field that travels out of the winding.
    The field expands until the pressure of space against the field = the pressure of the electric current creating the field.
    The magnetic field is a property of space and not the coil or magnet itself. Move the magnet and the field stays centered but collapses.

    When you turn off the power in the primary, the pressure of space causes the field to collapse. The energy stored in the field normally travels back into the primary.
    When you have a secondary winding wrapped with the primary a proportionate amount energy is transmitted into the secondary both when the field is expanding and when it is collapsing.

    The current/voltage ratio is determined by the relationships in the windings.
    If both windings have equal turns then the secondary will have a slightly lower voltage produced in it due to inefficiencies but for this discussion I will compare them without losses.

    If the secondary has 200% more than the number of turns of the primary then it will have 200% more voltage produced at 200% less current.

    Voltage and current are 2 measurements of the same thing...electricity
    It flows like water, wires are pipes.

    Voltage is the electric pressure in volts (v), Current is the speed of the flow in amperes (amps), Wattage is the volume in watts.
    Volts times Amps = watts
    Nominally a 3500 watt generator will produce 115 volts at 30.44 amps enough for 2 15 amp circuits. sometimes a tool will tell you how many amps it draws. If it only tells you the wattage using this formula will tell you the amps.

    Back to YOUR coil

    Your engine is turning ...
    It's between firing events...
    Your points are closed...
    Power runs from the ignition switch (through the resistor or solenoid on the old cars) and through the coil first, then through the closed points to the engine ground.

    The creation of the magnetic field in the coil is "built".

    The cam in your distributor opens the points turning off the flow of low voltage current, the field collapses and induces a low current high voltage in the secondary that goes to ground through the spark plug gap.
    The primary and secondary are NOT connected to each other. They are separate but next to each other...It is action at a distance.

    Now when the field collapses it also feeds back into the primary. It can't flow back into the battery so it tries to get to ground through the points.
    The condenser absorbs this energy so that it does not damage the points.

    Having the circuit damped results in a weaker spark. That allows the sparkplugs to run cooler and last longer.

    you don't need as much spark to run a warm engine as you do to start a cold one.
    The damping resistor is bypassed when you trip the solenoid and the coil gets a full voltage and a maximum spark to jump the wet gap in the cold sparkplug.

    If you are getting action by putting power to the small terminal then it's tripping properly, just not getting any or enough juice through the wiring harness and ignition switch.

    If it will not trip by powering the small terminal and your getting the starter to crank by jumping from the battery cable to the starter cable then the solenoid is bad

    A short circuit is when you have power getting to ground through a bad spot in the insulation before it completes the intended path.
    A grounded out downed powerline is an example of a short circuit
    An open circuit is when there is a break in conductivity and the electricity does not flow at all
    An electrical switch is an example of an open or closed circuit

    The wiring or the ignition switch could be to blame. It could also be low battery voltage or a corroded connection.
    Since the chassis power comes off the solenoid battery terminal, if that's corroded the power might not be getting to the ignition switch that way.

    It could be that the solenoid has short circuit causing a weaker magnetic field than if the juice was making the full trip... working but...not strong enough magnetism to overcome the spring.

    Low battery voltage and bad ignition connections will ruin a solenoid.

    If the disc is not held tightly enough to the terminals it will arc and burn the contacts.

    Sometimes this results in a solenoid that trips but doesn't pass juice.
    Sometimes it results in the disc welding itself to the contacts. this is what happens when the starter won't stop.

    If your engine starts and the starter doesn't turn off the bendix will keep it engaged.
    If you don't cut the power, the bendix will break or the starter will spin faster than its supposed to and centrifugal force may throw the wires off the windings. buying a new starter either way.
    If the solenoid sticks and the engine doesn't start it will just keep cranking until the battery cables get red hot and start a fire or the battery will quit.

    Usually the solenoid will start acting up before it fails.
    I always have one battery cable tight but loose enough I can twist it off in an emergency. an emergency shutoff would be the proper safety mod.
    If it ever happens to you and your panicking thinking about stopping the cranking and not about the hot battery post you will never forget to use a glove or a rag again!
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.