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Technical car of many problems

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Thrift-King, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    Been tearing into the '53 Chev 210...

    Generator is out of an early 50s Stude (which should be a Delco-Remy unit of some kind); which if memory serves, was a positive ground system. I believe this would explain why it doesn't work, and why the GEN and FIELD posts on the generator casing are grounded to the rest of the car? I am thinking perhaps if I were to polarize it then it might work, but not sure since technically it seems if I have ground at the terminals on the generator, polarizing wouldn't have an effect, due to physical connection. Thoughts?

    I have an illustrious factory shop manual from 1954 which has all the details on it, which has helped immensely on checking the regulator. The bitch about the generator in it, is that the GEN and FIELD posts are NOT marked on the casing anywhere. This makes me wonder if it is hooked up properly. Currently, the GEN (fat wire) is hooked to the driver side post (posts facing the top), and the FIELD is on the engine side. Based on what I've seen in photos, this may not be correct.

    The charging system obviously doesn't work, and with the generator completely disconnected from the rest of the car, does not produce voltage.

    First gear has a whine (I think I should give it some cheese...) which I expect. Second gear also has a whine, but it's not a happy whine. I was driving up a fairly steep hill the other night doing somewhere between 15 and 25mph in 2nd, and by the time I got to the top of the hill (about 45 seconds) 2nd was noisier than its ever been. It doesn't pop out of any gears, but I have a suspicion that there is a bearing failing, or that the 2nd gear cog has problems... I did read the rebuild thread that will inevitably wind up being posted as a reference here, but it didn't really show enough that I have an understanding on what might be the issue.

    For the record, I haven't taken the trans out as yet. I've tried locating another 2nd gear cog, to no avail, but most of the bearings seem fairly readily available.

    Next item is the turn signals. They came on my car from the factory, and it seems the switch itself seems to work, as having my foot on the brake while moving the turn signal lever does cut power to whichever side I select. I'm hoping its something simple, as in the flasher failed. Anyone have thoughts?

    Anyways, I'm going to keep fiddling with it to see if I can get any of this heap fixed.

    ~TK~
     
  2. brady1929
    Joined: Sep 30, 2006
    Posts: 8,810

    brady1929
    Member

    Get her going! Good luck.
     
  3. King: Welcome to the Hamb. You should be able to get [plenty of help here so hang in there for a while. The generator should be simple to straighten out. I would think they are easy to have rebuilt if necessary and someone here should have the correct hook up info. The trans deal likely will end up being a NEW or rebuilt tranny. I assume it has the original closed driveline. If so, I would strongly consider changing to open drive components. You can probably find parts for it but might take awhile. Don't have a clue about the turn signal issue, someone will though. Stay with it you'll get there. Tim
     
  4. ev88f
    Joined: Jan 29, 2010
    Posts: 371

    ev88f
    Member

    You might be able to find a known good trans from someone doing an open driveline swap. Probably could get another trans for the cost of the parts you'd be buying to repair yours anyway.
     

  5. Good luck with your project. HRP
     
  6. Old cars are just like leaky pipes.

    Getting an old car back on the road is similar to turning on the water in house that's been sitting.
    When you put water to leaky pipes, only the biggest leaks show up first.
    Then you drain the line fix those leaks and put the water back to the line again.
    Now the next biggest leaks show up. Repeat same again & again until no more leaks. No that the system holds full pressure without leaking, the weakest spot shows up by rupturing. So just when you think your done, it hits you in the head once again.
     
  7. 31Apickup
    Joined: Nov 8, 2005
    Posts: 2,906

    31Apickup
    Member

    Great analogy 31vicky
     
  8. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,275

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I love the the title of this thread. I have the brother vehicle, 'Truck of Many Problems'.

    Both Gen and Field generator terminals are grounded? That's not right, even on +earth. Depending on field wiring (A or B circuit), the field coil will either be grounded or given current by the regulator to increase charge rate. You can of course polarize the generator for + or - earth.
     
  9. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    Hey Blowby, it's too bad you are so far away, we could start a "Club of Many problems" lol... and yes, both terminals were grounded. I think the generator had an internal failing...

    Timwhit: Yes, it has the original Torque-Tube, which is fine for the time being. I just want to drive this thing, and if all I can find is another trans like mine in better shape, I'd take it. For all intents and purposes, it suits me fine for the time being. These old turds aren't very common in this area (parts wise, everyone has their rig on the road).

    I appreciate the input! I had a few fellow greasers come by last night so they could drink my beer whilst I puttered around on the car. One of them happened to bring a rebuilt 6 volt generator from a '53 Pontiac L-head Straight 8. I managed to get that bolted in (using shims, the brackets are different), polarized it and BAM! Charging system works.

    I did some more listening to the trans last night after getting the charging system fixed, and I've noticed that it makes not happy noises in 1st gear as well, which tells me I definitely have counter-shaft issues. I think the trans has these issues because of how long it sat. Likely, it got water in it. The guy I bought it from I guarantee did not check the gear oil level. I'll be doing that this weekend. With luck, it will just be low and topping it up will make it a bit happier.

    I did not have time to investigate the turn signals much, (as I spent the rest of the time beating dents out of the car, and drinking beer....:eek:). I can say with certainty that the steering wheel needs to come off for me to evaluate the state of the contacts. He mentioned that they had never worked, I'm guessing they aren't getting power.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...........

    ~TK~
     
  10. luckythirteenagogo
    Joined: Dec 28, 2012
    Posts: 1,265

    luckythirteenagogo
    Member

    That's not a car with a lot of problems, it's a car with a lot of personality!
     
    kiwijeff likes this.
  11. rfraze
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,006

    rfraze
    Member

    Pull the plug on side of transmission and check oil level. Should be high enough to almost run out.
    Check to see if one connector of flasher is getting power.
     
  12. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    This car definitely has a lot of personality!

    I've got a laundry list of other things that are wrong with it, but I'll cross those bridges when I get there, as they don't keep me from driving this bucket.

    I'll be pouring through the wiring (as it doesn't quite match what the manual says should be.... go figure), checking the fluid level on the trans, and rear diff as well. I am lucky in one respect, and that is there is a company called "The Filling Station" that is just a 30 minute drive from me.... and they sell reproduction parts for my car...well most of them. They don't exactly have a transmission sitting around, or really any of the parts for it.. or headlight trim rings... but I digress.

    Quick question: Do you guys see many younger folks popping in, and then right back out after they realize they can't plug a computer into their Nash/Stude/Packard/Kasier.. etc?

    ~TK~
     
    Dave Downs likes this.
  13. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 7,146

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    Pull the wheel to lube mast jacket bearing & cancelling parts, but leave the turn switch alone unless you want to tighten the bell back onto the mast jacket. An allen screw from Ace hardware in place of the phillips head that comes loose every week is recommended. A 550 Tung-Sol flasher will fix the rest.
    Since the '53s are the last of the cloth & rubber wired Chevrolets, clean everything that grounds.
    Hope your manual is a '49-'54 Chevrolet factory issue - nothing else does the job.
     
  14. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    Hi 302GMC,

    Yes, it is the Factory '49-'53 manual with '54 supplement in the back. It is a fantastic resource... aside from a few typos. I will take a look at the phillips head screw and see about finding something more suited to the job of holding that junk together. Where exactly do you get the flasher from? I've not heard of a Tung-Sol flasher.

    Thanks!

    ~TK~
     
  15. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 7,146

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    Any decent parts house should have a 550 6v flasher. Run up the road to Portland & visit Joe Jr. at Old Car Parts - he'll have answers & parts both new & used, plus it's a trip just to visit ...
     
  16. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Most parts stores will have to order a 6 volt flasher. Not many of them sold in a year. Easy to find online.
     
  17. llonning
    Joined: Nov 17, 2007
    Posts: 680

    llonning
    Member

    Not being a wiring expert, I have seen what happens when a generator has not been polarized. It will de-solder the armature!!!! As I understand it the generator does not know which way to send the current. As a result it bounces back and forth between + and -, thus creating a lot of heat. That is what de-solders the armature. Make sure the wiring is correct. I find all of the schematics I can on anything connected with wiring. Like I said NOT a wiring expert of any kind.

    Good luck, Len
     
  18. Shrink
    Joined: Feb 14, 2015
    Posts: 12

    Shrink
    Member

    My 53 is a negative ground and I think Chevy's had negative for many years before that. Mine had a powerglide (gutless)so you're lucky that you got some real gears. There ought to be a fair number of those old 3 speeds laying around from guys who up graded the whole driveline. Those old closed tube systems were always a pain in the ass to mess with though. If you want to go with an open drive shaft the S10 4X4 rear end swaps in nicely and there are kits available to help with that. I got the mechanical skills of an Aardvark so my 53 is in a friends shop getting some transplant surgery done. Good luck with your car.
     
  19. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    So I checked the trans oil level, it was basically bone dry.... filled it with 80W140 and it's nice and quiet except for gear whine... lovely.

    Shrink, you should have the Blue Flame engine, which is full pressure...not a babbitt pounder like mine = it should last longer. I will eventually swap out the drive train when something fails, the torque tube does not excite me.
     
  20. Shrink
    Joined: Feb 14, 2015
    Posts: 12

    Shrink
    Member

    At present the 235 is tucked in the garage waiting for something but I'm not sure what. It's only got 62xxx miles on it and runs sweet but I'm going small block and updated driveline stuff.
     
  21. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    Too bad I couldn't buy it from you... I'd like to haul mine out before the babbitt goes bad.
     
  22. Don't know if you have posted it elsewhere around here, but do you have any pics of this ride / heap?
     
  23. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    I do! I'll be taking some more and posting them to my intro thread very soon-like.
     
  24. Dick Stevens
    Joined: Aug 7, 2012
    Posts: 3,310

    Dick Stevens
    Member

    Yes, Chevies are negative ground, Ford did the positive ground back in the old days.
     
  25. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    Turn signals and fuel gauge are now working!
     
    Chavezk21 likes this.
  26. This may seem like I am nit picking but one could just come up with the correct generator for the car.

    As for field or gen posts on the generator it is pretty easy to tell which is which, the fields are those little thingys that are bolted to the case, take a look and see which post has wiring that goes to the fields, the other post is gen.
     
  27. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    Hi Porknbeaner... I mentioned a few days back that I got a generator from a pontiac that is installed and working, though now it seems I'm having regulator issues...wants to overcharge a bit.

    What bulb do I need to get for the dome light? It's a double contact bulb socket, and everywhere I've looked, they show a single contact bulb for it, which is wrong...or so it seems. Putting a single contact bulb in just means the light is on all the time no matter what switch position on the housing, door switch, or headlamp switch.

    There is a tag on the back of my instrument cluster which says something to the effect of "Don't hook this up backwards or you will damage the gauge"... well someone had it hooked backwards, so now I'm thinking the gauge may be bad. It just goes straight to full and stays there. Connection to the tank is bueno.
     
  28. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    And suddenly, with no warning whatsoever, the charging system stops working!!!

    Contacts on the voltage regulator look like there's been quite a bit of metal transfer, current regulator points looked cooked, but the Cutout Relay contacts looked good. With everything disconnected from the generator, it puts out no voltage. No Voltage while hooked up either. No Voltage with Field terminal grounded. Seems the generator has a fault... potentially grounded itself somehow? I tried re-polarizing to no avail.

    I would be happy to locate the "correct" generator for this car, but they simply don't exist out here. Looks like I'll be tearing into the generator tonight to try and find out why it's having an issue. I'm hoping it's just a brush that's gone bad. That would be odd, considering that this is a unit that was recently rebuilt by a very good shop here in town.

    Hmmmmm....

    ~TK~
     
  29. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

    Decided to bite the bullet and convert to 12 volt.:eek:

    Bought a 10SI 1 wire for a 1980 Corvette w/350. All new bulbs for everything, new flasher, disconnected the fuel gauge (until I can get a voltage reducer for it), going to install a ballast on the coil feed wire, removed old regulator and wired the BAT and GEN leads together. A buddy of mine is modding the original generator bracket to fit the alternator today at work so I can bolt it in when I get home.

    I need to pick up a battery (I have 2 6-volt batteries, but I really don't have space to wire them in series under the hood.

    I will need to get a voltage reducer / ballast for the heater fan when I finally get the heater core out and fixed (leaks of course). Now I'll be able to put in my CB, and a regular radio. My car has the factory delete plate for the radio, and I intend to leave it that way.

    More to come. Perhaps it'll set alight when I try firing it over on 12v. Who knows.

    ~TK~
     
  30. Thrift-King
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 122

    Thrift-King
    Member

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    And here's what I've done with a few tricky editing things...

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