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Technical Car not staying charged, all new stuff

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Black&Blue, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. Black&Blue
    Joined: Sep 15, 2017
    Posts: 11

    Black&Blue

    Hey guys, first post here and I have an electrical question.

    Just finished getting my car running and driving and I'm having a charging issue. Car won't charge even after a little drive. Charge the battery and my volt gauge read 12v, by the time I drove it to my buddies shop a few blocks away the volt gauge was at 8v.

    Basically on the car I moved the battery to the back and am using a new Optima red top. 00 gauge wire to my electric shutoff, to my Ford solenoid (also in back) and to the starter. Alternator is a Summit one wire 140amp (part number SUM-810344). I have the wiring exactly as the Painless kit says [​IMG]

    Even though it's a one wire I hooked a ground wire from the ground tab on the Alternator to the frame. 70amp Maxi fuse (provided by painless) with a 2 gauge wire running back to the battery side of my Ford solenoid. Ground wise I have a 2 gauge running from battery straight to frame, and another 2 gauge running from frame to engine block.

    Everything I'm running doesn't use much power, fuel pump, water pump, electric fans, ignition box, gauges. No radio.

    Now I did do some tests today after trickle charging the battery for a couple hours.

    Battery with everything off was reading 12.2v. Cranking dropped voltage to 10.5, and at 1000-1500rpm at battery was reading 11.8v, and same when I tested it at the Alternator.

    Summits instructions for the Alternator says that at idle the Alternator should be charging at least 13.8v at 1000rpm.

    To me right now seems like I got a faulty Alternator. What do you guys think and is there any other tests I should do? Thanks a lot!
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  2. Chiss
    Joined: May 12, 2017
    Posts: 235

    Chiss
    Member
    from S.C.

    Alt. Amp's Please ? You can't pull a 100 amps out of System and keep it charged with 60 amps. I know you say it's 140 but check it. Just curious how is 140 amps going through a 70 amp fuse?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
  3. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,848

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    He said in the post it's a 140 amp alternator.

    I would guess your alternator is bad.
     
  4. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 2,041

    lostone
    Member
    from kansas

    Bad alternator or you have the alternator wire on the wrong side of the starter relay.
     

  5. Terrible80
    Joined: Oct 1, 2010
    Posts: 784

    Terrible80
    Member

    System not charging. Easy to try another alternator. Not much else in your system , but wiring.

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  6. Chiss
    Joined: May 12, 2017
    Posts: 235

    Chiss
    Member
    from S.C.

    If you have a 140 amp Alt., The wiring Diagram that you have makes no since to me For a one wire hook up. If you have a Dead Battery and that alt. throws a 90 or 100 amp surge down to the Battery it would smoke a 70 amp Fuse. And by hooking the Fuse block to the alt. with no protection, what would a 90 amp surge do to that........ I think the wiring Diagram is Doo Doo. I've wired Quite a few 1 wires and it was nothing like that. I would wire in the Factory Exciting wire if I was going to service the Fuse Box.
     
  7. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,323

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Careful, you can smoke an automotive start battery by drawing them down too far, they don't like going below 10 volts at all. Maybe those Opti batteries are special, I dunno.
     
  8. Sheep Dip
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,572

    Sheep Dip
    Member
    from Central Ca

    Unhook the wire(s) to your alternator pos post and put a volt meter on it to see if it is actually working at producing anything at all or how much. Should be producing in the neighborhood of 13.8 to 14.8 volts
     
  9. Black&Blue
    Joined: Sep 15, 2017
    Posts: 11

    Black&Blue

    Sorry about the delay guys, was doing some more tests.

    Unfortunately I dont have an amp meter and my miltimeter only goes to 10amps. I was doing volt drop tests at the fuse box, starter relay, and battery and everything was okay.

    And as for the painless wiring pic the 915 and 916 wires are one wire before splitting off into two wires, not two initial wires in case anyone was curious.

    And I know the alternator is 140amps but i only have a 70amp fuse because all my stuff isnt running more than 70amps anyways (roughly 60amps).

    And I didnt unhook the wires at the alternator post but I tested the alternator straight at the post and same thing was only reading about 11.6v, which is why I believe I may have gotten a faulty alternator, cuz like I said Summits instructions says that it should be reading 13.8v at 1000rpm. I even ran the car 2000-2500 and the voltage hardly changed (11.6-11.8).

    Ill give summit a call monday, thanks for the help guys
     
  10. Take the alternator off the car and take it to a parts house and let them check it out. HRP
     
    jim snow and RMONTY like this.
  11. Jack E/NJ
    Joined: Mar 5, 2011
    Posts: 713

    Jack E/NJ
    Member
    from NJ

    >>>Ill give summit a call monday, thanks for the help guys >>>

    Yeah. And after the parts house confirms it's bad, just tell Summit you wanna return it and a refund. Then order a 3-wire 10si from dbelectrical and simply pigtail a wire from the sensor terminal to the output terminal. Leave the exciter terminal open, Then you'll have a reasonably-priced one-wire. And later, once you've learned a bit about the benefits of a 3-wire setup, you can easily convert it back to a real 3-wre. http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml Jack E/NJ
     
    Nailhead Jason and trollst like this.
  12. Chiss
    Joined: May 12, 2017
    Posts: 235

    Chiss
    Member
    from S.C.

    Stick your nose real close to the alt. and sniff, If it smells like burnt ass the internal regulator got smoked.
     
  13. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 6,693

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    This is an interesting question, and I had to think about this for awhile, and I think the answer is - a 90 amp surge would do nothing harmful to the fuse panel.

    Keeping in mind that electrical current is drawn, not pushed, the fuse panel and all the associated circuits will only draw what they need, and no harm will come to them from the alternator going into full charge mode.

    But I think you're right about the 70 amp fuse being at risk if the battery goes dead for whatever reason and the alternator goes into full charge mode.
     
    trollst likes this.
  14. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 6,693

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    OK, so the problem with this logic is that the path for the recharge of the battery runs through the fuse. You're thinking about the maximum load the entire system can place on the fuse panel, but what you should be thinking about is the maximum load the battery can place on the alternator. The amount of current the alternator puts out depends on the voltage it senses from the battery. When the voltage drops below a set point the alternator goes into charge mode, until the voltage gets back up to the regulated voltage level. The lower the voltage in the battery is, the more current the alternator will generate until the voltage starts to come back up and the regulator tells the alternator to ease up. If the voltage in the battery is low enough the alternator will put out full output to try to bring it back up, and until the voltage does come back up the regulator is not going to step in and tell the alternator to ease up. So the alternator will generate at maximum output if needed to get the voltage back where it belongs (this is why it's not such a great idea to run a car with a dead battery, though we all do it. You know, when you jump start a car with a dead battery, then disconnect the jumper cables and drive off, the poor alternator works it's ass off charging the battery back up. If you can, it's best to hook up a battery charger and bring the battery back up that way instead)

    Again, as I noted above, current is drawn, not pushed. The battery, being low on voltage, will draw as much current as it can get, the alternator will try to comply, and the weak spot in the chain is that 70 amp fuse. I'm sorry, but in that situation that fuse is going to give up the smoke.
     
  15. Chiss
    Joined: May 12, 2017
    Posts: 235

    Chiss
    Member
    from S.C.

    Blues4U if you have a short @ or before the 70 amp fuse on the fuse block feed that fuse block is going to get Hot as Hell............
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  16. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,473

    King ford
    Member
    from 08302

    A short before the fuse block will cause HIGH HEAT from the power source to the location of the return to ground,( the short circuit location ) anything further down the line will not be effected.....
     
  17. Chiss
    Joined: May 12, 2017
    Posts: 235

    Chiss
    Member
    from S.C.

    a Short on 916 Red is going to fry the fuse block, All alternator amps is going to the Dead Short Trust me. 915 and 916 have no protection, if there is a short in the fuse block it's going to go till it melts down or you fry the regulator.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  18. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 6,693

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Not necessarily. If 915 & 916 are in series, then the fuse panel will not be carrying the load, 915 and/or 916 will be at risk, not the fuse panel. But that drawing really isn't clear about it. You're assuming the fuse panel where 915 & 916 pass thru it has less current carrying capacity than the wires themselves do, there's really no reason to think that without have the fuse panel itself in hand.

    Still, you point out something, why have 915 there at all?
     
  19. Jack E/NJ
    Joined: Mar 5, 2011
    Posts: 713

    Jack E/NJ
    Member
    from NJ

    Without both the 915 & 930 connected to the fuse block, either alone might be fried if the total current draw from the block exceeds their individual current-carrying capacity. Accordingly, a fusible link mounted close to the output post of a hi-output alternator is probably worthwhile in any case. Jack E/NJ
     
  20. Chiss
    Joined: May 12, 2017
    Posts: 235

    Chiss
    Member
    from S.C.

    915 and 916 are independent lug feeds in the fuse block, if these lugs inside the fuse box goes to short, puff you have a dash Fire. you do not put a load on without protection. The fuses in the block only protect the lights or switches or work load, they will not protect the fuse block. That's why manufactures use link or Mega Fuses to protect the Block.
     
    Bandit Billy likes this.
  21. Black&Blue
    Joined: Sep 15, 2017
    Posts: 11

    Black&Blue

    Apologies for the delay guys I didn't see this post was still getting responses.

    Anyways, first thing is, I did take the Alternator to an auto store and they confirmed it wasn't putting out what it was supposed to... 11.5v. So I was able to claim it under warranty.

    Secondly I did have the same question regarding the fusing for specifically the 915 wire that I called painless about a little while ago and they said to wire it up just like that and that wire is fused in the fuse box so I don't need to run another fuse in line anywhere else. Of course I can for peace of mind but he said I don't need to.

    Third I do understand about how anything higher than 60amps will blow my Maxifuse which I have thought about so I was going to upgrade the wire to that to an 8 gauge and run a 100amp fuse there instead (I downgraded the Alternator I'm getting to a 100amp cuz I don't need a 140amp and I got some money back)
     
  22. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,297

    upspirate
    Member

    Thanks for the follow up
     

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