History Canadian Pontiacs - Whats Up ???

Every so often when we're out with the Turd (51), I get old timers that always ask if its a Canadian Pontiac, which it is. Had another guy last night ask me.

What's so unique / different between a Canadian and American Pontiac ?????

 

If they were anything like Canadian Fords/Mercurys, the northern cars always had a different grille and tail lamps. In later years (mid '60s), a Beaumont looked pretty much like a Chevelle, but had a different grille, and the '67 that one of my college buddies had had a different tail lamp panel with '66 LeMans tail lamps.

 

At some periods, they were essentially Chevies with Pontiac grills and trim.

 

Yeah like Bruce says they are rebadged chevys, the US Pontiacs were bigger cars

 

us pontiacs had pontiac running gear, canadian had chevy.

 

On an American Pontiac the master cylinder was still under the floor,the front end still had king pins and from the cowl forward was about six inches longer. At least the 55's where. In later years the American cars became longer, lower and wider.

 

Correct! Apparently GM wasn't interested in sending any of the good stuff north of the border! Yes this may be a rip on Canada, but also a rip on Chevrolet.... See how I had to explain that.....

 

Canadian Pontiacs were a little different than Chevies. I had a 53 Canadian Pontiac that had a flathead 6 in it. Other than the hood, grille, taillights it was essentially a 53 Chevy. I can't speak for sure on earlier than 53. From 55 up is where it gets fun. The base engine for 55 to 62 Pontiacs was a 261. the Canadian (and export) Pontiacs were built on Chevy chassis, using Chevy drivetrains. This is great for anyone building a 567 Canadian Pontiac because all the aftermarket stuff for Chevy chassis fits. Some oddball Canadian stuff I have seen in person or seen pics of:
1957 Pontiac Pathfinder (plain jane) w/250 hp FI 283
1957 Pontiac Pathfinder business coupe - no back seat
1958 Pontiac sedan delivery - belong to 29ehv8's father in law if I remember right
1960 StratoChief two door wagon.
1961 Parisienne (top of the line) ragtop, 348 4 speed.
1962 or 3 Parisienne wagon, 409 4 speed.
1965 Pontiac StratoChief four door sedan 396 2 bbl, pg
1967 Pontiac Custom Sport 427 auto
1968 2 + 2 ragtop 427 auto
1968 Beaumont Sport Deluxe w L-88

I have two or three 261's in the garage and a 56 Pontiac sedan delivery, kinda rare car.

 

Once saw a bone stock '63 or '64 Canadian Pontiac Parisienne Wagon with a 409 in it.

 

I got this from a NG years ago. I'm a Ford guy but it is of interest as Poncho's competed against Mercury and Meteors similarly.
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There was recently a question posted regarding the rational for the
production of Canadian Pontiacs. Hopefully this will explain the reasons in
greater detail.


There doesn't seem to be a lot written about the history of the Canadian
Pontiac. I may be wrong but I just haven't been able to find that much. It
occurred to me that there are probably many who do not know the reasons why
a uniquely Canadian Pontiac existed at all. I don't claim to be the
definitive historian on Canadian Pontiacs but I do know at least part of the
answer to how the General Motors 7000 series vehicles commonly called
"Canadian Pontiacs" came to be.



I worked for General Motors as an engineer for 37 years retiring in 1998 so
my tenure there spanned a substantial portion of Canadian Pontiac
development. The development of the 7000 series Pontiac did not happen
overnight but was rather a progressive departure from the US design brought
on by economic considerations unique to the Canadian market. The Pontiac
name plate was introduced by Oakland in the United States in 1926 as a lower
price Oakland model designed to fill the price gap between Chevrolet and
Oldsmobile. It was so successful in its mission that by 1932 the Oakland
brand name was dropped and Pontiac achieved full status as a brand
divisional name placed squarely between Chevrolet and Oldsmobile.



While its relative market position has never changed to the present day and
Pontiac remains the second best seller for GM in the United States, it wasn't
very long before Canadian requirements for the Pontiac began to diverge from
our American counterparts. The decision to produce a Canadianized version
of the Pontiac was not taken in one step but was rather a progressive
departure from the US design driven by a succession of economic
considerations unique to Canada and by advancements in automotive design and
production methods that drastically increased investment cost to produce a
separate vehicle.



The first factor was the limited size of the Canadian market for
automobiles; in total less than 10 percent of the US market in any given
year. Because of this limitation no single vehicle line except for Chevrolet
offered sufficient sales potential for a Canadian dealership to exist and so
General Motors of Canada Ltd. developed a marketing strategy early on which
offered dealer franchises based on combined product line packages, the most
common of which still exists today as Chevrolet/Oldsmobile/Cadillac
dealerships versus Pontiac/Buick/GMC. Similar franchise strategies were
developed at Ford and Chrysler as well during the same period.



Almost from the beginning at General Motors of Canada there was a
concentrated effort to equalize the product packages offered between
Chevrolet/Olds/Cadillac and Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers. The problem in
maintaining such a balance was Chevrolet volume which in many years equaled
or exceeded the total sales volume of Pontiac, Olds, Buick and Cadillac
combined. To combat this Pontiac was selected in an attempt to provide an
entry level vehicle which could compete with Chevrolet in price and design
features head to head thus giving Pontiac dealerships a means to compete
directly in the entry level market.



In attempting this GM quickly ran up against additional factors that made
use of the US Pontiac design less than acceptable. Canadian importation law
imposed duties of as much as twenty-two percent on finished vehicles and
automotive components coming into Canada. With the exception of Cadillac, it
was not economically viable to import finished vehicles into Canada at high
duty rates. As a result from an early period and until the automotive free
trade agreement (autopact) was signed between Canada and the US in 1966, all
other GM models were produced in Canada.



For the most part components to complete these vehicles on Canadian assembly
lines were imported from the United States. The exception of course was
Chevrolet whose volume justified the high investment necessary to
manufacture major driveline components such as engines and transmissions.
Keep in mind that each division in the US shared little in common when it
came to chassis so in order to produce anything but Chevrolet in Canada it
was necessary to import and pay duty on engines, transmissions,
differentials and virtually all other chassis and sheet metal components for
these cars.



While Olds and Buick enjoyed enough price flexibility to do this, Pontiac
was never going to compete head to head with Chevrolet in Canada with an
American model Pontiac assembled in Canada from imported parts on which duty
had to be paid. Something had to be done to lower Pontiac's price both in
terms of investment and component cost.



The answer became the 7000 series Canadian Pontiac. To avoid duty on major
chassis items such as engine and transmission it was evident that such items
must be produced in Canada. For many years they were. The Pontiac L-head
engine was probably the best example of this, the straight six version of it
being produced in Canada for many years. But by the mid 1950's the greatest
sustained yearly model change program in automotive history had begun. When
Pontiac Motor Division dropped the L-head engine in 1955 even the most
optimistic sales figures could not justify separate Canadian tooling for the
American Pontiac V8 engine or the hydramatic transmission it was teamed
with. Furthermore the US Pontiac no longer offered a six which would put
Pontiac at a disadvantage against Chevrolet in the Canadian market. In a
decision that departed from everything that was holy in the autonomy of the
US car divisions, it was decided that a hybrid based on a Canadian produced
Chevrolet chassis which offered both a six and a newly introduced V8 was the
only way Pontiac could compete in Canada. To save on investment the Pontiac
would be produced on the same assembly line as Chevrolet. Similarly the
Pontiac and Chevrolet versions of the Chevrolet small block V8 and
Powerglide transmission were also manufactured together as were rear axles,
brakes, exhaust systems, radiators, and much more.



By 1958 with the introduction of the Chevrolet 'X' frame the transformation
was complete and 7000 series Pontiacs were by then a much different car from
their US look-alikes. Mechanically they now shared virtually everything
with Chevrolet but outwardly in appearance it was hard to tell them apart
from an American Pontiac.



It is a common misconception that all economies of scale were achieved in
one direction by commonizing Pontiac with Chevrolet. There are many examples
where this process worked in reverse such as the uniquely Canadian Pontiac
air cleaner which was installed on Canadian produced Chevrolet small
block V8's as well and the common electrical wiring harness which is more
Pontiac than Chevrolet and differs in design from both us Chevrolet and
Pontiac.



And so for many years Canadian Pontiac fulfilled its purpose as a Chevrolet
fighter, in some years almost equaling Chevrolet sales in Canada. With the
introduction of compact models in 1962, the same philosophy drove uniquely
Canadian Pontiac models of these Chevrolets starting with the Acadian
version of the Chevy II. In fact as early as 1959 a Pontiac version of the
Corvair was tooled for Canadian production but was cancelled just weeks
before introduction. It too was initially to be called the Acadian.



But the autopact of 1966 changed the outlook for the Canadian auto industry
for all time. For one thing it began the process of rationalization to
allocate high volume production of fewer models exclusively to Canada in
exchange for the duty free importation of other models and components for
other models from the united states. Canadian Pontiac was the eventual
victim of this rationalization.



Though its uniqueness continued for several years after 1966 by the early
1980's those Canadian Pontiac model names that still existed were little
more than Chevrolets with Pontiac name plates and many of them were
manufactured in US assembly plants for the Canadian market. In addition many
of the American Pontiac models had found a place in the Canadian market and
some of these were manufactured in Canada for sale both in Canada and United
States.



But there was one last hurrah for Canada. When Pontiac motor division
prematurely dropped its full size car line and downsized the Bonneville to
intermediate size status US Pontiac sales plunged. Canadian Pontiac
Parisiennes were hurried into production for the US market to bolster sales.
By this time the Parisienne was little more than a Caprice with a Pontiac
style grill so the following year Fisher Body actually resurrected old dies
to bring back the previous Catalina rear end styling to make the car more
distinctively Pontiac in appearance. For the American market. It continued
in production for some years still bearing the Parisienne name and still
proudly displaying the made in Canada stickers throughout US showrooms.

So these are some of the reasons behind the "Canadian Pontiac" series as
they were told to me. As I said, I am not a Pontiac historian just somebody
that worked there during their production - a fact of which I will always
remain proud. I welcome any comments from those who may have more or
different knowledge on this subject in the hope that through such dialogue a
complete history of this truly unique Canadian automobile will eventually be
compiled.




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Thanks for the information - especially VirgilHilts. At least I can respond with a more positive understanding to the questions.

Thanks guys !!!!

 

My understanding was it was always to avoid duty fees, too. There are some oddball mid-late '60s Canadian Pontiacs that are basically rebadged Chevys with a different grille and taillights. And the Parisienne came about because the year the Bonneville was a midsize, dealers were ordering up the Parisienne to satisfy the customers who wanted a full size Pontiac still - which led to it becoming part of the line the next year and getting the Pontiac tail section back the year after that.

Early 50's Canadian Pontiacs come in a US-like variety and a Chevy-like variety, you can tell by the shape of the front wheel opening the shorter wheelbase version.

 

The official Canadian Pontiac Website. WWW.CANADIANPONCHO.CA

Operated by yours truly.

 

Excellent information. I'm going to copy and save it on my computer to share with some Canadian friends who winter here. I find all the Canadian versions of US cars interesting. We had a 68 Pontiac Beaumont at our show last year.

We have a couple of 56 Mercury M-100 pickups running around town. I was told once that the 56 Ford F-100 pickups were still being built in Brazil or somewhere in South America using the same tooling into the mid 60's. Wish I had a 64 F-100 that looked like a 56. Could make some serious money betting guys it was a 64.

(275)

 

Here you go. You guys south of our border step up. You can be the only one around with one of these.(other than mine, same color)

This is not my ad, but this thing is one of 1583 made. I know of about 6 others left, and two more that have been made int Chevies.

http://saskatoon.kijiji.ca/c-cars-v...1956-PONTIAC-SEDAN-DELIVERY-W0QQAdIdZ75541962

 

I know a guy who bought a 1950 Pontiac Businessman's Coupe this summer. Was it available south of the border or just up here ?

 

I can add another to your list of "seen" Canadians. This is my 1962 Pontiac Acadian. The differereces between the Novas and the Acadians were, the Grills, Taillights, and trim packages

 

I've got a 1958 Pontiac Pathfinder.

It's a 1958 Chevy with Pontiac sheetmetal and badges with a Chevy 261 and a three-speed.

The Canadian ponchos didn't use a 235, they sourced the larger 261 from the Chevy trucks.


Shawn

 

Here's one that's rarer with only 682 built .....

1957 Pontiac Sedan Delivery

(276)

 

That's Pat's (Fordnutz) 57. Yes, a rare one. Shiny's father in law's got a super nice 58 Poncho delivery. Real rare - 2-300 made in the last year of production.

 

australia also got the canadian pontiacs. I had a 61, and it was basically a chevy with a pontiac body. Even had the same dash as my mates canadian 64 chevy

 

Rarer yet....

 

The October 2008 issue of "Collectible Automobile" has a 12 page article that runs down models, styling, chassis and powertrains from 1926-65

 

Here is my 48 Canadian Pontiac. Takes all of the same sheet metal as a 47 Chevy. It had a flat head six in it, now runs a 261. Same car in the US is built with parts from an Olds. Fenders are wider and many other parts do not interchange.

 

I love those 60 2 door wagons!

 

well when i was younger i started working on a 1965 stratochief i was my first car that ran, got it from a farm auction for 100 dollars, i was stoked,
it had a 230 straight in it ( now going into my model a), got the engine rebuilt, but then i started working on the body turns out the back two quarterpanels were caved in at the wheel wells, up to 2 inches of bondo. i went to order rear quarter panels but well experience autobody guys that deal with parts panel replacements said that they wont fit and take just as much time to modify them as to build a hole new one. well i didnt and probably still dont have the experience to make a full fender, exspecially with both sides messed up. Appraisers told me a well restored model was worth 4-6000. so the hell with it, not worth the time or money. And good excuse to rob as much as possible for my little model a. I also have a 1954 pontiac Pathfinder, it also has a flat head six ( if i remember correctly) while all american pontiacs had the beginnings of fins among other things. But like said earlier 54 chevrolets have the same parts. Personally i like the 54 cdn to american pontiac.

 

[QUOTE the Canadian (and export) Pontiacs were built on Chevy chassis, using Chevy drivetrains.

 

Wow!!!Now THAT is a rare piece!!! I agree, gotta "love" ´em...

 

All of the handful of full-size Pontiacs sold here back in the ´50s and ´60s were of Canadian origin. They not only shared the mechanicals and the "short" 119" wheelbase with the standard-size B-body Chevy, but all the other external proportions as well, most notably the Chevy-spec, shorter rear overhang as well as thanks to the Chevy frame, the narrower track width of the Chevy as opposed to the US-spec "Wide-Track" Pontiac chassis they were most famous for. The wheels being further inside the wheelwells is a quite notable feature.
The oddest thing I ever heard of here was a 1960 Pontiac 4-dr that was imported from South Africa back in the day that not only had all the other various characteristics mentioned above, but right-hand drive as well.

 

just picked up a VERY nice 1963 Pontiac Parisienne Convertible. 283/powerglide/powersteering/tilt wheel. And it is for sale, too!