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Hot Rods Can mag wheel bolt pattern be changed ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Belair1964, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. When you call back on Monday and talk to Kim ask him about the possibility of plugging the 4 3/4 holes and then drilling the 5" bolt pattern. Might cost a little more but a better and safer way for the extra piece of mind and you will have an actual 5" pattern.
     
    Belair1964 likes this.
  2. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    Thanks. Lets see what Monday brings. If it warms up enough I can get the Belair out and measure and compare the hubs. That would be the easiest way if it would work. Somehow I doubt it though but cant hurt to scope it out
     
  3. PONTNAK123
    Joined: Jul 10, 2008
    Posts: 435

    PONTNAK123
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    this guy deals in all the old vintage wheels and lugs and washers akhlogo.gif getdata.jpg akhlogo.gif getdata.jpg getdata.jpgbghy.jpg getdataEGJS0DP1.jpg getdataY01SQF3Z.jpgghuytj.jpg
     
  4. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    Checked with him a while ago. 14x6 with a 5 on 5 is a real oddball
     
  5. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,383

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Please tell me no one actually uses this wheel on a vehicle.........:eek:
     
    VANDENPLAS and hotrodharry2 like this.
  6. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 5,179

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    The other thing you should give a thought or two is if in the future you decide you want disc brakes up front.
     
    Belair1964 and dan31 like this.
  7. dan31
    Joined: Jul 3, 2011
    Posts: 1,049

    dan31
    Member

    No help on the wheels but love a 61' Pontiac , good luck with the wheels, it will look great once you get it figured out.
     
  8. Country Joe
    Joined: Jan 16, 2018
    Posts: 233

    Country Joe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't call them rims. They're called wheels, here on the HAMB.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
    mkubacak and Truckdoctor Andy like this.
  9. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 4,080

    1934coupe
    Member

    Just a thought Belair, will the 14" wheel fit over the Pontiac 11" drum? Maybe you should get one without the studs and just check before you go through a lot of work.

    Pat
     
  10. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    Yes they will. 14’s were standard and I have a set of 14” Supremes on it now.
     
  11. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    I would probably have to go with 15” wheels with a disc conversion so that would mean a whole new search for wheels. This behemoth stops darn good with the drums !
     
    egads likes this.
  12. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,956

    sunbeam
    Member

    If they are aluminum weld and redrill
     
  13. PONTNAK123 likes this.
  14. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,242

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Some guys would use a Halibrand no matter what! Must be a 'tribal thing'...
     
  15. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,383

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Honestly, the last thing you should consider is messing around with redrilling the holes in an aluminum wheel or welding on them. Its one thing when a professional wheel building company welds on a wheel, and quite another when its done in someones garage. Every brand of wheel is different somewhat, but when you start messing around with thoase aluminum wheels on a heavy vehicle........its not a good idea. Get the Chevy hubs and do it right.....and safely. I know some people have done the wheel modification thing sucessfully, but its a risk you don't need to take. Others have done it unsucessfully. They usually don't chime in and tell you about it.
     
  16. Not sure what Swade41 is talking about?! Every time I see him reply and I see his Avatar picture and the one he used before this one, I just plain lose all train of thought!! I sure hope that model is someone close to you! As for the bolt pattern problem, I wouldn't have a problem welding and redrilling the bolt pattern myself (fun in the shop). If you can't go this route I completely agree with finding a spindle to match.
     
    swade41 likes this.
  17. Stan Back
    Joined: Mar 9, 2007
    Posts: 795

    Stan Back
    Member
    from California

    28 Merc 2012 SW copy.jpg Angel's Ladies copy.jpg Phil's Wagon copy.jpg Sedan at BV copy.jpg "Some guys would use a Halibrand no matter what! Must be a 'tribal thing'..."

    Well, I guess. Hard to find another brand's 4-1/2x18. Before the rim let go on the 15 Freeway about 20 miles north of the 93 cutoff, they'd run about 10,000 miles without a hitch. In fact, in 1972 they went 149 at Bonneville on the pictured 55 Chevy wagon (with a 390 Cad and Jetaway). They had one Indy tire and one Bonneville tire – about 3/4" different in diameter – with cord showing on both of them.

    I inherited them for my 28 Mercury. Maybe a dozen trips to El Mirage and Bonneville. Here they are outside a whorehouse in Beatty, Nevada, before going back to California thru Death Valley.

    I was lucky to find the pieces. Took me two years before I could find someone to weld them. He said they'd had a casting problem when made. He found a void and filled it up. I try to keep them under 65 mph any more. I went 100 years ago on 93A – pretty scary. When installed, there're plates on the outside of the hubs that hopefully keep them from shifting around.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
    bowie likes this.
  18. Corn Fed
    Joined: May 16, 2002
    Posts: 2,781

    Corn Fed
    Member

  19. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

  20. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,956

    sunbeam
    Member

    So then you get to carry 2 spares. Two wheel patterns on the same car is the pits.
     
    Belair1964 likes this.
  21. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,966

    Budget36
    Member

    Weld, redrill, plug...etc...etc...all bullshit.

    So, I had a set of those -i'll call them unilugs_ you call them what you want. They worked on the back of my '78 Camaro, I used a regular Mag wheel bolt. whatever, 3.5 years in Az going to school, several trips back to California.

    Guess I should have had them filled and redrilled...geeze, they were made like that.

    Anyone want to dig out the lawsuits from 40 years ago?

    I'll wait.

    My point is, let a machine shop index and mill them out.
     
  22. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,383

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Nope, you buy a dual pattern wheel to use for a spare. Surely people can forgo looking cool long enough to get to a tire store. What everyone is ignoring here is that plugging holes with weld introduces stresses into the wheel that could prove harmful. The construction of some aluminum wheels with a big flat center section makes it easy to redrill them. The wheels in question do not have that luxury and would need welding.
    I'm not a pro welder, but I know aluminum takes a lot of heat to weld and can cause stress and even warping. Friend brought me an aluminum oil pan he had managed to crack when a jack slipped. The particular aluminum composition of the cast aluminum pan made it difficult to weld properly. I would weld it and it looked fine. Then after a couple minutes I would hear a "pop/crack" sound. I ground the weld off and tried again.........pop/crack again. I could weld slowly and in short beads (1/2") with cooling in between and the inside weld looked perfect.Even used a heat gun after each short weld so that the pan cooling was very slow. Flipped the pan over and repeated the slow weld process on the other side. Then the inside would crack again. Spent about 4 hrs welding/ cooling/rewelding/recooling and no matter what I did, it would crack again. Did some research and found the proper way was to grind ALL of the metal out of the crack and try to fill the hole left behind. Threw the pan away and got a new steel one. Didn't want to be driving and have the pan crack under heat from the engine oil and lose all the oil and ruin the engine.......if I ever manged to get it welded without cracking. When you fool with welding aluminum, you can create a lot of problems if the component is in a high stress environment like a wheel is. Personally I wouldn't want to weld this particular style of wheel. ;)
    wheel 1.jpg
    Wheel 2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
    Budget36 likes this.
  23. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,966

    Budget36
    Member


    Two step process with a milling machine on the 2nd wheel you posted, one to take some out of the hole, the other to get the recess.

    Now IF (I wouldn't) I had to fill a hole, I'd press slip a slug then redrill/bore it, that would give you what might be needed without issue of heat on the wheel. Then again, that's a lot of work, and I'm a simple man.
     
  24. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,934

    LM14
    Member
    from Iowa

    I would just take them to a good machine shop with a rotary table and a mill. Have them remove that little 1/8", get the proper depth lug nuts and GOOD washers (not the thin cheapos, Gorilla makes good washers). Put them on and enjoy your ride. Some people tend to overthink everything and preach. I've seen a lot of wheels turned into "unilugs" over the last 45 years with absolutely no problems. I wouldn't worry one bit.
    SPark
     
  25. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    I am looking into both the drum/hub drilling fixture and will talk to machine shop monday. I already have the proper washers and lugs for the wheels. Just didnt know 2 out of the 4 wheels were the wrong pattern until I went to install ! If I convert my hub/drum I would have to face the spare tire issue but the wheels on the car rigeth now have both patterns already so I would be able to carry one spare. My preference is to machine the wheels and leave the car alone.
     
  26. Do like this. No welding or re-drilling required. 20200423_192732.jpg
    Four (4) Slot Magnesium Wheels collecting dust on a shelf waiting to go on my 1927 Altered Model T
     
  27. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    Nice but not the look I want for the barge !
     
  28. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,956

    sunbeam
    Member

  29. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,383

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    If you have a classic or expensive wheel that has a hole or two buggered up, Your only option is to repair it.
    That can possibly be done by drilling oversize. Depends on the wheel in question and how its designed. If its not possible to enlarge the holes, then the ONLY option becomes welding. For buggered edges on a hole, minimal material will need to be deposited and less heat input into the wheel. Very little chance of inducing stress.
    The point you are missing is that having someone who is a qualified/certified/ makes their living welding.......and having your buddy Joes good friend weld your aluminum wheel can present a world of difference in the result you get. Thats why I posted the example of my self taught welding attempts on an aluminum oil pan crack. With the buggered wheel you are starting with a wheel that is already damaged and requires something be done in order to save it. In the case presented in this thread, nothing is wrong with the wheel and there are other better and safer options. Its simply a matter of choosing a similar cost option that doesn't weaken the wheel .
    Can the wheel be welded and remachined. Yes........but get someone who is an expert welder to do it. It won't be any cheaper to weld then remachine the wheels than it will be to redrill the Pontiac hub, as there is plenty of metal on the hub and its stronger to begin with.
    (Note: There are lots of videos on line showing welding being done on aluminum wheels. Almost all of them seem to be about repairing the outer edge of the wheel because a pothole broke it. The center mounting of the wheel is the focal point of all stresses exerted on the wheel, which makes a big difference )

    You don't need a drill fixture if you have a machine shop redrill the hub. They should have a rotary table that quickly and easily positions the hub for drilling. They can press the lugs out and reinstall them with their hydraulic press.

    Characterizing things as overthinking and preaching are convenient misdirection, but the truth is that there are risks to welding and remachining, or just machining an elongated hole. The first/best option is a hub with the correct bolt pattern like a Chevy, but my understanding now is that the Chevy is NOT a direct fit. Second option is to remachine the thick and rugged Pontiac hub to have a Chevy pattern staggered inside the Pontiac pattern.
    The wheel by design doesn't have a lot of excess metal and being aluminum, it needs all the strength it can get. Can you simply machine the slots out a little and use quality shouldered nuts to retain them? Yep ! You still have to buy new nuts and pay for the machine work. The logical thing is to pay to have the hubs machined rather than pay to have the wheels machined. If you want to call that "overthinking" and "preaching", I'm good with that. It sure beats the hell out of "underthinking" and then finding out that you made a bad decision when you have your family along with you and are trying to keep up with the 80 mph traffic on the freeway and suddenly have to panic brake to avoid the slowing cars ahead.....or just encounter a pothole. After all, its just an insignificant little wheel that you want to modify..........

    Worry 1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  30. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 1,837

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    Here are my 14 inch 5 spokes mounted on my 63 Star Chief. They should clear[​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    1934coupe likes this.

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