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Can I legally start to repop an old car part to sell

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RatPin, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 3,083


    If you make a part as a "replacement" you will have less of a problem. It replaces a part, it is not the part. As far as sheetmetal if it is not the exact whole panel, it is not that part. That being said, anyone can start a lawsuit.

    If you make the part with manufacturers approval. They will list it as an approved part, meaning that it is up to thier engineering standards ect. It also may make you "the" supplier.
  2. FlatheadFanFromMI
    Joined: Oct 26, 2010
    Posts: 67


    and then they would be on YOUR side if someone else tried to make it too.
  3. models916
    Joined: Apr 19, 2012
    Posts: 380


    It's easier to stop and apologize than to get the permission and what not. Just do it.
  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899


    Spoken like someone who has never been sued by a corporation.

    Guess who gets to pay, when you lose.
  5. Still no clue as to what part?
  6. TagMan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2002
    Posts: 6,076


    Interesting subject......

    I wonder if someone like EMS needs to have a license from Ford to reproduce, say, a tail pan patch panel for a '36 Ford, for instance? The panel EMS makes is PART of a part and although the entire body was originally stamped by Ford, Ford never made (as far as I know) a patch panel for it. So, EMS PRODUCES a part, they don't REPRODUCE one.

    It's semantics, but I wonder if my thinking's correct? I'm thinking it's all in the use of the Mfg's name or logo. If you say it's a "1936 Ford tail pan patch panel", you'd probably need Ford's blessing, because you infer Ford's involvement. If you advertise it as a "patch panel that can be used to fix a 1936 Ford", would you need a license?
  7. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 17,984

    from California

    funny. I guess that is why most aftermarket patch panels are junk.... they had to make them 20% different in order to avoid licensing fees. :D
  8. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,644

    from Colorado

    Posted this on the thread regarding '32 five window coupe reproductions:

    I used to ski with the patent attorney that set up the licensing program for Ford. That same program has become the model for GM and Mopar. According to my friend, and he should know, the money Ford takes in on their licensing program just covers the cost of administration. All of the licensing programs were developed to protect trademarks. Harley came within a gnat's ass of losing their trademark because they never bothered to enforce their rights and go after vendors using the H-D logo without authorization.

    Using the Ford logo doesn't carry any guarantees from Ford Motor Company regarding the quality, fit or finish of licensed products. There was a flap several years back regarding the Ford and Mustang logos used by the national owner's club that was fixed to everyone's satisfaction.

    Almost forgot to mention the straw that broke the camel's back for Harley; edible panties with the H -D logo on the crotch and advertised in Easy Rider Magazine!
  9. cayager
    Joined: Feb 10, 2012
    Posts: 293


    op must have deep pockets. id imagine to tool up to produce 1 panel for yourself, then hope to sell more for a 1 model year car, is pretty costly. i think id buy alot of sheet metal shaping equipment and make 1 panel for myself. probably finish the car alot sooner too. just my opinion.
  10. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 6,247

    from Oregon

    They don't need GM's permission; they practically own GM now!
  11. You'll have to wait, the adults are talking now.

    Are you kidding me ?
    Tell me how much R&D front money might go into straight into the port-a-pottie with out any chance of recovery if you just "stop" after you are ready for production? I have no idea on the exact dollar amount but I do know it will be "all of it"
  12. silversink
    Joined: May 3, 2008
    Posts: 917


    By the way that's a nice K emblem in you avatar
  13. summersshow
    Joined: Mar 3, 2013
    Posts: 899

    from NC

    What is the part? See if you can find the patent number on it. Reference that number and see if its still an active patent.

    If theres not an active patent on that part than technically anyone can produce it to make profit.... BUT using GM's names, which are protected could get you in trouble...

    Ive done a bit of research into patent law...
  14. czuch
    Joined: Sep 23, 2008
    Posts: 2,688

    from vail az

    One off year? Make yourself a part and move right along.
    If some one wants one, show em or make one for them and charge accordingly.
    BTW,,, Whats the part? N.O.S.?
  15. Joe H
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 973

    Joe H

    Did the bankruptcy and bailout a few years back have any effect on this matter? It seems like they should have lost some control over the old parts.

  16. RatPin
    Joined: Feb 12, 2009
    Posts: 574


    It's for a '59 Impala/Belair/Biscayne
  17. woodbutcher
    Joined: Apr 25, 2012
    Posts: 3,215


    :D Yep.Just remember the pile of caca that GM got into several years ago with Baretta(?)firearms co. over the use of their name on a car.
    Good luck.have fun.Be safe.
  18. abe lugo
    Joined: Nov 8, 2002
    Posts: 2,357

    abe lugo

    Why dont you just post a wanted ad on all the forums for that particular part. If i needed it that badly, i would go out of my way to find a replacement first. Now if there is not much call for said part, then that will show you it would more than likely be a bad investment as far as tooling up to make repops. If it small mechanical part you might be able have it replicated by a good fabricator. If it is a body panel, then you can still have a good fabricator make you one, either way you need a clean original make tooling.
  19. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,569

    ems customer service

    nice video, but gm started going after the Chinese market over 20 years ago, my boss at gm was given that assignment.

    and by the way gm sells more buicks in china than in the usa and alot of usa made stuff goes into those buicks
  20. sntos63
    Joined: Nov 6, 2013
    Posts: 33


    GM actually has a facility in China and is producing a lot of "American" parts right there IN CHINA! Bastards! So is Ford. Not sure about Chrysler...
    Watch the documentary "Death By China" .. Scary shit..

    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
  21. partsdawg
    Joined: Feb 12, 2006
    Posts: 2,847

    from Minnesota

    When MOPAR decided to get in the parts reproduction game they were later than GM or Ford. They advertised that for $10,000 you could get the rights to reproduce any part and they would send you copies of the original blueprints of said part.I think you then had a 5 year window to get your part out in the market or you lost the 10K.
    Some gambled and lost while others did well.
  22. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,152

    Ned Ludd

  23. atomickustom
    Joined: Aug 30, 2005
    Posts: 3,337


    I think it matters a LOT what kind of part you are talking about. If it's sheetmetal, ask someone at Shotz or EMS how they go about it. If it's an emblem or other recognizable trademark then you best chat with GM before you do anything else!
  24. rascal55
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 154


    I would bet that it will take longer to find a person in the corporate
    hierarchy who can give a YES or NO to that question than it will to
    make the part !!!!! Be ready to H O L D a long time !!!!!!!!
  25. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,407

    Rusty O'Toole

    You can LEGALLY make replacement parts if you do not advertise or sell them as made by the OEM manufacturer.

    You Can Not use a trademark or trade name like "Chevrolet" or the Chev bow tie emblem.

    You Can Not make a patented part without permission, however most body parts are NOT patented. They must have something new and unique to get a patent.

    A patent expires after 17 years. If GM got a patent on something in 1995 or earlier you can legally copy it now because the patent has expired.
  26. There is a guy in the Midwest that makes reproduction body parts and patch panels for pre-1972 Dodge trucks. His tailgates are works of art! His are smooth in the center, as all '70 and '71 tailgates are. HOWEVER, if you want a DODGE or FARGO stamping in your new tailgate, he will "remanufacture" your old tailgate by using and restoring your old DODGE or FARGO stamped section, integrating that into the tailgate as stock. This makes it a restored part, NOT a "new replacement part", because he has built a new tailgate around your embossed center section.
  27. gatz
    Joined: Jun 2, 2011
    Posts: 1,531


    actually the term is now 20 years.

    from Wikipedia; "The signing of the 1994 Uruguay Round Agreements Act[27] then changed the patent term from seventeen years from the date of issue to the current twenty years from the earliest filing date."

    Note the change from "date of issue" for 17yrs to "earliest filing date" for 20yrs

    You have to be careful in assuming that whatever had been patented, then the patent had run its course, that there's not a new patent that basically covers the same thing with different "claims"
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  28. bobj49f2
    Joined: Jun 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,804


    Interesting that this has been brought up again. I'm going to make a replacement part for a old car and have been monitoring this post. There's two different sellers on eBay who sell two different replacement parts for the same late '30s GM car, one looks close to original but is made very differently than the original and the other person makes two trim pieces that are identical to the original, with the marque logo on both parts. I emailed both people to see how they do it. The first person responded saying his part isn't exactly like the original so he's never looked into contacting GM about it. The second person never got back to me. But, the first person knows the second person and was told the second person pays GM a fee to use the logo.

    Don't know it this really helps in the conversation but I thought I'd throw it in.
  29. impala59
    Joined: Jun 21, 2010
    Posts: 490

    from vallejo,ca

    you must be the guy that was asking to borrow a part for you can make one who posted on the low rider site lay it low. Seen it a few days ago. What part do you need there are alot of impala parts for sale around northern California. Right now there is a 1959&1960 Chevy bel air in rancho Cordova picknpull.
  30. summersshow
    Joined: Mar 3, 2013
    Posts: 899

    from NC

    Lets see your part already

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