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History Can-Am: Raw Power

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by miller91, May 29, 2009.

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  1. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,716

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    Pic of a 917 frame.

    1martinimuseum09dn2.jpg
     
  2. miller91
    Joined: Dec 7, 2008
    Posts: 542

    miller91
    Member

    Yeah the Porsches I've seen all had these "goober" welds, but I don't know how you contained that much power in that lightweight a package.
    [​IMG]

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  3. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    <!-- / message --> <!-- attachments -->


    Take a good look at this car. One of the most innovative designs ever. It's the original AVS Shadow designed by Trevor Harris and built by Don Nichols. It is probably the ultimate exercise in a low drag race car. The front wheels are 10" in diameter. The radiators are at the rear and air is ducted to them with vertical fences. The part with the dollar sign is one of those vertical fences. That's the car at it's first test at Riverside.

    Kurt O[/QUOTE]
    ...
    http://www.autodiva.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=177&start=280
     
  4. Beach Bum
    Joined: May 7, 2006
    Posts: 573

    Beach Bum
    Member

    Typical race was 200 miles long. Typically there were no pit stops unless there was a problem with the car. Reliability among the top teams was usually pretty good. At Riverside in 1972 32 cars started and 22 finished but one was disqualified (that was interesting!). Some of the cars in that race were five or six years old. Also, some local SCCA racers, typically in older cars, would run the Can-Am when it came to town to try and win some money or just to run the big show.
     
  5. Sjiefaa
    Joined: May 18, 2009
    Posts: 168

    Sjiefaa
    Member
    from Holland

    Klick Here's a 917 on some public road...

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lNiVDgMiExQ&hl=nl&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lNiVDgMiExQ&hl=nl&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    Yee-f-ing-haaaa!
     
  6. Beach Bum
    Joined: May 7, 2006
    Posts: 573

    Beach Bum
    Member

    Remember, Porsche's experience was in long distance racing. Some of those tracks were pretty rough so they were able to design very strong but lightweight frames. Porsche turned to Can-Am racing because a rule change made the 917 obsolete for distance racing. The Can-Am cars were what was known as FIA Group 7 cars and there was a series in Europe for Group 7 cars called the Interserie. Porsche did well there too.

    Shadow ran a car with a twin turbo big block that made incredible power but they didn't have the money to develop it and the whole series was on the downslide by that time so they went to Formula 1.

    Kurt O
     
  7. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,838

    the-rodster
    Member

    "The 917/30 could go from 0-62 mph (100 km/h) in 1.9 seconds, 0-100 mph (160 km/h) in 3.9 seconds, 0-200 mph (320 km/h) in 10.9 seconds, and on to a top speed of 260 mph (420 km/h)"

    WOW!

    Rich
     
  8. Choptop
    Joined: Jun 19, 2001
    Posts: 3,303

    Choptop
    Member

  9. Omega
    Joined: Jul 11, 2006
    Posts: 876

    Omega
    Member
    from Mass

    Awesome

    <object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/npeqsxznY9o&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/npeqsxznY9o&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>
     
  10. Choptop
    Joined: Jun 19, 2001
    Posts: 3,303

    Choptop
    Member

    A pics from the Historics at Laguna Seca a few years back. Being in the hot pits with these cars? With Jim Hall at the controls? Forggettaboutit. Definitely a highlight.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. cleatus
    Joined: Mar 1, 2002
    Posts: 2,277

    cleatus
    Member
    from Sacramento

    WTF - that looks like last time I pulled the washer & dryer out to look for a missing sock.

     
  12. Zerk
    Joined: May 26, 2005
    Posts: 1,418

    Zerk
    Member

    That's what I once said about the Carrera Panamericana. I was both wrong and right at the same time. Such a pure form of racing surely couldn't last long, or ever return as it was. Maybe that's how it will be for the Can-Am as well.
    It'd be a fantastic series, though...
     
  13. Choptop
    Joined: Jun 19, 2001
    Posts: 3,303

    Choptop
    Member

    Anyone have pics of the black Shadow cars?
     
  14. My dad has some 8mm film of the 1973 Can Am race at Mosport... and the audio he recorded on cassette tape, I guess he thought he could sync it together somehow later... I should have that converted to digital and see If I/he can do it now. He says he can still tell what car it is just by the sound, the 917's were just crazy fast, and Jody Scheckter drove it like it was on a dirt track, hanging the rear end out on every turn.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2009
  15. Mazooma1
    Joined: Jun 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,598

    Mazooma1
    Member

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Beach Bum
    Joined: May 7, 2006
    Posts: 573

    Beach Bum
    Member

  17. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Can Am today would just become something like this.......
     

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  18. Mazooma1
    Joined: Jun 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,598

    Mazooma1
    Member

    On a dumb side-note:
    Don Nichols, the owner of the UOP Shadow team, used to humor himself by wearing his UOP baseball cap upside-down, so his cap would read "don" instead of "UOP" (Universal Oil Products)
    [​IMG]
     
  19. There was/is nothing to compare with the sound of 2 dozen really big block engines putting out insane HP, coming out of a turn and blasting off down the straight. Unless you witnessed it yourself, you would not believe any descriptions of the noise/concussion produced. I suppose a shuttle launch might come close, but not as much fun. Innovation ruled. Max Balchowski to the 10th power.
     
  20. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,716

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    Yeah, those cars lead a pretty rough life.

    0211_11zoom+1970_porsche_908+front_view1186031169.jpg

    Type+9101186021665.jpg

    908-02-ADAC69-nr1tris.jpg

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    LM70-PF.jpg

    70fasberg03bj1.jpg

    LM70_Porsche-Alfa.jpg

    ( not all the Porsche's in those pics are 917's)

    They were not built to show off beautifull sculpted welds.

    They were built to win races.
    ( and they did...)
     
  21. boldventure
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,766

    boldventure
    Member

    Here are a few Shadow Can-Am pics.
     

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    Last edited: May 29, 2009
  22. Beach Bum
    Joined: May 7, 2006
    Posts: 573

    Beach Bum
    Member

    You're probably right.

    Back in 1969 something like this would have taken place......

    "Hey Fred, I got a great idea for the car. How about we (insert radical idea here)! Nobody's done that!"

    "Jeez Bill, that's a helluva idea! It's gotta work! Lets go in the shop, build it up and take it to the track and kick some ass! I can't wait to see the looks on those guys faces when they see that!"

    Now in 2009 this would happen.....

    "Hey Fred, I've got an interesting concept. How about we (insert radical idea here)! Nobody's done that and I think the rules are vague in that area."

    "Interesting idea Bill. Work up a model in Catia and them we'll run it through the CFD program. If that pans out we'll add it to the race simulations and see if the numbers meet the projections."

    Damn computers have ruined everything.

    Kurt O.
     
  23. Dynoroom
    Joined: Feb 26, 2008
    Posts: 539

    Dynoroom
    Member

    There were two of these McLarens that Carroll Shelby used in the late 60's to run the Can-Am with 427 Fords. This car is owned & restored by Judge Joe De Loreto to run in vintage races. I dynoed the engine with it's Lucas timed mechanical injection. It was a blast.

    [​IMG]

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  24. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,143

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    The only thing I can think of that comes close is a modern Supermodified. Would have been nice to see the Can Ams, sorry to have missed them, (the supers put on a great show, and are mostly regional racers.)
     
  25. retroridesbyrich
    Joined: Dec 2, 2004
    Posts: 1,872

    retroridesbyrich
    Member
    from Central NC

    Shadows were just plain evil looking machines.
     
  26. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    Or as Rodger P. would say to his engineering staff: "The blank check from (take your pick) Porsche, Mercedes, BMW etc..... just arrived, make it happen"
     
  27. I think it was Hall & Sharp that came up with the Chaparral and every time they came up with something (most of it radical as hell) it was outlawed. So it wasn't a truly open series.
     
  28. skywolf
    Joined: Jul 1, 2006
    Posts: 1,868

    skywolf
    Member

    Porsche also built 4 working flat 16 prototypes for Can-Am. At 6.7 litres, they produced 840 h.p @ 8300 rpm. They believed that 2000 hp was possible with turbocharging, however they never raced as they already had the series sewn up with their turbocharged 12 cylinder motors.
     
  29. Beach Bum
    Joined: May 7, 2006
    Posts: 573

    Beach Bum
    Member

    Actually, the only thing that Hal came up with that was outlawed was the twin engined 2J "sucker car". They added a rule that a car could only have one engine. Actually, Hall came up with the idea for the 2J based on a drawing sent to him by a teenager! They outlawed the moveable high wing and then the high wing itself but both of those were done by others before Hall. He just made them work better!

    Kurt O.
     
  30. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,774

    noboD
    Member

    Just a bump to the top. You guys made me late for work looking at this stuff this AM!! I only had one chance to see the Can Am boys at Watkins Glen, what a treat. I have a pic of the old Shadow, but am not smart enough to post it. The old original looks better then the late version, IMO.
     
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