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Camaro clip manual steering boxes

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Shane Spencer, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,161

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    I know this isnt technically traditional but my apache came with an 81 camaro clip. I know some others run this style clip so possibly you can help. I want to run manual steering and im aware the s10 boxes bolt in, but there 7.5 turns lock to lock. Anyone have a quicker ratio manual box for a 81 camaro clip ? Thanks for any help - shane

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  2. hoop98
    Joined: Jan 23, 2013
    Posts: 1,362

    hoop98
    Member
    from Texas

  3. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,161

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    Didnt even think about that.... I could fab a mount really easy and there super small. Are these things reliable in the long run? The truck will be driven ALOT.

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  4. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 13,878

    chaddilac
    Member

    Don't forget the small fortune you'll pay for knuckles!!!
     

  5. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,161

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    I was just looking at em online chad. Friggin unreal the prices for these things......

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  6. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 13,878

    chaddilac
    Member

    Yep!!! Good thing we only needed one and a buddy had it available!! :)
     
  7. 296 V8
    Joined: Sep 17, 2003
    Posts: 4,666

    296 V8
    BANNED
    from Nor~Cal

    A friend and I use to run a back halved 81 …. If I recall correctly a early GTO box bolted right in.
    I don’t know the ratio of the mid size GM boxes …. May be worth a look
     
  8. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,161

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    Thanks 296, ill take a look and see what i can find. Anyone else have an idea?

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  9. skidro69
    Joined: Jan 2, 2013
    Posts: 91

    skidro69
    Member
    from Dothan, AL

    What about vega, or chevelle
     
  10. FANTASY FACTORY
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 256

    FANTASY FACTORY
    Member

    Post 79 is a metric box, physicly bolts in but spline sizes and counts are off just enough that you cant see it. there is whole load of intercahange ininfo on some saginaw site,
     
  11. The fastest ratio worm gear box GM made, 2.5 turns lock to lock, was on the S10 Extremes and the power ones are everywhere but word is they made a manual box as well in that ratio.
     
  12. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,161

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    Old gaurd that is a good point, didnt think about the extremes......

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  13. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,161

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    But now that i think about it, xtremes werent available untill 98 ish i think. Apparently the bolt in s10 boxes are 86 to 93 or something like that...... shouldnt be too difficult to make one work though ....

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  14. hoop98
    Joined: Jan 23, 2013
    Posts: 1,362

    hoop98
    Member
    from Texas

    I've never heard of one breaking, seem like a pretty simple device.

    I haven't used one since my street stock Camaro days but had no issues then.
     
  15. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,584

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think any of the front steer 64 and up Chevelle size, and Camaro/Firebird boxes will work. I'm pretty sure that the rear steer boxes on the first Generation Camaro/Firebird will work by reversing the pitman arm and putting the correct pitman arm on for the steering linkage on the rig.
    There is probably a page somewhere that shows what models have what ratios over the years.
     
  16. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,050

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Most ANY manual box is going to somewhat "slow"......simply because they ARE manual, though I would think a 4.5 turns lock to lock is probably out there. Stated in terms of ratio, I think most manual boxes at least 16 to 1 and range into 20/22 to one on the high side.

    Power units typically are 16 to 1 down to the 'specialty' boxes around 12 to 1. The latter being fitted to Trans Ams, Z28 or other high performance apps.

    I would think the fastest ratio manual boxes would be found in very light cars, 6 cyl intermediates with no AC etc.

    What is your objection to a power setup? Ought to be able to bolt on a box and pump pretty easily and pretty inexpensively too.

    Ray
     
  17. Canuck
    Joined: Jan 4, 2002
    Posts: 1,080

    Canuck
    Member

    Maybe some help. Data I compiled when I was going the other way woth my 64 Chevelle. Used this info for help selecting a box for the 30 coupe.

    A list of direct bolt-on boxes and some that need modifications.
    Interchange #706

    Buick Special 64-70 Camaro 67-74 Chevelle 64-70
    Chevy 65-70 Firebird 67-73 Grand Prix 69-70
    Monte Carlo 70 Monza 75-79, 8cyl Monza 78-80,6cyl
    Nova 68-70 Olds 64-70 F-85 64-70
    Pontiac 64-70 Skyhawk 75-80 Starfire 75
    Starfire 76-80, 6 cyl Starfire 77-79, 8cyl Sunbird 76-80
    Tempest 64-70

    On some 64-70 the drag link hole on the pitman arm may need to be enlarged.

    The following boxes will fit but may need to have the pitman arm and/or the rag joint changed or and extra bolt hole boss taked off the steering box. Make sure you compare the input shaft length or the length from the bolt holes to the end of the input shaft to your power box.
    Interchange #999

    Apollo 73-75 Omega 73-79
    Chevelle 71-77 Skylark 75-79
    Monte Carlo 71 Regal 73-74
    F-85 71-72 Nova 71-79
    Lemans 72-77 Cutlass 76
    Ventura 71-77 Phoenix 77-79
    Century 73-74 Tempest 71
    GMC Sprint 71-77
    Cutlass 73

    Interchange #989

    AMC Ambassador 70-2
    AMC 77-80
    AMC Spirit 79-83
    AMC Hornet 70-77
    AMC Concord 78-83
    AMC Matador 71-76
    AMC Gremlin 70-78

    Interchange #1034

    Jeepster 72
    Jeep 73-83
    Jeep CJ & DJ 72
    Jeep CJ 84-86

    List was derived from Hollander Interchange Manual


    Power Steering Info:

    Here is the scoop on 12.7:1 fast ratio Saginaw steering gears.
    ORIGINAL
    Your 1965-69 Chevelles had gears with 17.5:1 ratio, 43 degree travel, and light effort valves.
    The 1970 Chevelles had a variable ratio gear 16:1 on center and 12.4:1 near the stops on some models; 17.5:1 gears on others.
    POSSIBLE REPLACEMENTS
    The 1988-94 Camaro Z28/TA with FE2 suspension has a gear with a .210 diameter torsion bar. (This is the real high effort gear). The travel is restricted so your turning circle is going to get larger. The gear was ink stamped with the letters "XH" on the end cover and/or side cover.
    The regular 1988-94 Camaro/Firebird with V8 had a gear with a .204 T-bar and will have somewhat lighter effort because the T-bar is a smaller diameter. It also has restricted travel and has the ink stamp WS on the gear.
    Another possibility is the 1992-95 Jeep Grand Cherokee gear. It is 12.7:1 and it will have the same 43 degree travel as your original gear. It will have even lighter effort than the regular Camaro gear. I can't tell but it may be as light effort as your original gear (but it is a fast ratio gear!). It should have either AL or JH ink stamps.
    All of the pitman shafts on these gears are the same. So the splines that attach to the pitman arms are the same. I have to assume that you know that your original pitman arms mate up correctly or you have a source for correct pitman arms. Also you should already be aware that these gears have metric o-ring hose connections (16mm and 18mm).

    Canuck
     
  18. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,161

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    Hnstray, i dont wanna run a power setup mainly just for the simplicity. Power steering is just another thing to worry about. I dont mind driving manual steering at all, in fact i prefer it anywhere but super tight parking lots, which is why a quicker ratio would be awesome. Plus i just picked up a set of 2.02 double humps with no accesory hole, so i just want it really clean with a low mount alt and thats it. As far as chevelles and misc nova boxes etc, i could make em work, but the s10 box is far more appealing because it literally bolts in and uses my existing steering linkage and pitman arm. The others may require more parts. and if i added a 2:1 quickener to an s10 box it would effectively go from 7 lock to lock, down to 3.5 turns lock to lock. But then im gonna have to deal with the expensive u joints, and the quickener. Idk, each option has pros and cons...

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  19. Shane Spencer
    Joined: Oct 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,161

    Shane Spencer
    Member

    Bump for the morning crew

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  20. filthy frank
    Joined: Jan 25, 2008
    Posts: 541

    filthy frank
    Member

    i clipped my 57 half ton with a 65 chevelle clip with manual box and 4 " wide front wheels , and have no problems !
     
  21. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member


    I have read this thread 4 times over the last couple of days and I just have to ask - What in hell are "knuckles"? I have built cars for over thirty some odd years and never heard the term. Regional?

    Sorry, but it's bugging the hell out of me...
     
  22. As stated, any A-body manual box should be a good option and bolt in. There were also manual second gen Camaro boxes, but they are probably not so common and for that matter not so many Camaro in junkyards anymore.
     
  23. micky69
    Joined: Dec 24, 2010
    Posts: 287

    micky69
    Member
    from Ohio

    "knuckels"= slang for ujoints. Yes, they run around $75 each for good ones, or you can get the China ones for $40.

    We have a 525 style OEM box at Flaming River. its about 5.5 turns lock to lock for just under $300, all new, not a rebuild.
     
  24. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Hmmmnnnn, Thanks! Never heard them refered to that way.... Always u-joints.
     
  25. chaddilac
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 13,878

    chaddilac
    Member

    You've never heard of them called steering knuckles? I thought very one had... Lol!! :D


    Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
     
  26. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Nah, I've heard of spindles called "steering knuckles", but never in conversation. U-joints, never. That's why I wondered if it was a regional thing...
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,354

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yup. I've lived at both ends of the country, and been through much of the rest, and I have never, ever heard a u-joint called a knuckle.
     
  28. micky69
    Joined: Dec 24, 2010
    Posts: 287

    micky69
    Member
    from Ohio

    I get it all the time on tech calls, along with u joints being called couplers (have them too but have to find out which part they mean first) and a steering column being called a steering wheel and a call-youm.
     
  29. tudorkeith
    Joined: May 10, 2009
    Posts: 454

    tudorkeith
    Member

    If you get a box out of the " extreme" package offered in later s-10's it has a quicker ratio steering box. I think the official name of the package is zq8.
     
  30. 296 V8
    Joined: Sep 17, 2003
    Posts: 4,666

    296 V8
    BANNED
    from Nor~Cal

    This is probably why people on here are constantly asking for photos of a seemingly obvious part …… no one knows what frickin name go’s with what. :rolleyes:
     

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