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Cadillac 500

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Gearstix, Dec 21, 2008.

  1. As mentioned before the cadillac power forum has a ton of useful information. Here's an index to some of their best posts which include engine swaps.

    http://www.cadillacpower.com/forum/index.php/topic,6984.0.html

    Here is a index to the links of the best cadillac websites:

    http://www.cadillacpower.com/forum/index.php/topic,6981.0.html

    I also read somewhere that the engines are all basically the same for power because the rating system changed during that time and torque figues. The small loss of power in later engines was due to a drop in the compression.

    I have a '76 500 I'm planning to put in a '40 Ford COE ramp bed car hauler.
     
  2. Gearstix
    Joined: Dec 21, 2008
    Posts: 194

    Gearstix
    Member

    I'm waiting for my account to get activated.
     
  3. SBC's will fit just fine with a custom oil pan and proper headers for steering shaft clearance, the Fat Caddy is a few inches wider and you will run into the inner fenders, steering, etc. You will also have to make your own oilpan to fit into an S truck

    The S-10 is 4" narrower than the G-bodied cars and the firewall is about 2" forward in comparison.
     
  4. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,869

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Sorry dude, I disagree. We did one in an 80 F150 for towing. Empty with some consideration for mileage we did an average 15/16MPG on the hiway, towing we'd do 11/12. Had a 400 trans and a 3.23 gear with tall tires. That truck was fast as hell...for about 1 block. Like said above, stock form they don't rev. We got over 100,000 miles outta that thing with ZERO ISSUES. It was a used runner when we got it. My sister bought the thing and drove it for 5 years and another 60,000 miles. All in that motor had close to if not over 200,000 miles on it. It used a qt of oil the 1st 500 miles then another 1/2 qt in 2500 or so miles...weird. They can be anything from reliable TQ monsters to ovesized racers. I'm a fan.
     
  5. Rich Rogers
    Joined: Apr 8, 2006
    Posts: 2,019

    Rich Rogers
    Member

    They are great motors that can last a long time . 4000 rpms is about it in stock form. The bottom end will take more BUT the valvetrains are weak and if you over rev them they will break the retainers on the rockers causing the pushrod to over extend and then a lifter pops out and lays under the intake on the block. Very high nickel content in the casting making them only about 50 lbs. heavier than a sbc. They are also about 3 inches longer and 5 inches wider than the sbc at the valve cover. The Edelbrock 2115 raises the carb probably 3 to 4 inches resulting in much better flow for mpg and performance. I have a 472 that I was going to use in my 55 chev. but there's basically too much torque there to put a M-22 behind it and I refuse to pull the Muncie out. Use the T-400 and a Tall gear as said before.Even a 2:56 rear won't stop the 500 from smokin the tires but you need low rpms for crusin as well. Do it up, you won't be sorry.
     
  6. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,104

    George
    Member

    @ least some of the Mustangs had 2.73 & my Crown Vic Interceptor has 3.08 posi.
     
  7. Stick004
    Joined: Oct 24, 2008
    Posts: 129

    Stick004
    Member
    from Missouri

    The best advice I can give is: Find some friends, from here or otherwise that have done engine swaps before.

    This sounds like quite the undertaking... Big block torque on V6 mounts, shoe horned in a truck never meant to hold half that power. with an 8.8 that's gonna hang the wheels outside the bed. Sounds fun.

    This CAN all be done and be great to drive. But NONE of these parts are going to be even close to "bolt in". I recommend some good new friends ready to start fabricating. And a heated garage... It's going to take awhile.
     
  8. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 6,309

    flynbrian48
    Member

    That ain't neccessarily so. The 472 I had in my '48 Pontiac averaged 15 mpg, and it was a tired 100K miler. It pulled like a mule, and even with the clacking original lifters and weak in one cyl, it'd roast the tires into next week.

    It's now freshened up, compression dropped to a little friendlier 10:1, .060 over, cammed, heads mildly ported, and resides under the hood of my '36 Fordillac roadster. Yee-haw.

    All the stuff about the intake is true, but Edlebrock has that all figured out for you with their aluminum Caddy intake. Even with the stock intake, these are serious torque monsters. I believe the '69 and '70 Eldo 500's were rated at 400 hp. My '68 high compression 472 is 375 hp, and these figures are at a very street friendly 3500 to 4000 rpm.

    As for how much an unkown condition 500 is worth, that's debatable, but consider it a rebuildable core, and plan on spending double what an SBC can be built for, as the parts cost more.

    Brian
     
  9. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 6,309

    flynbrian48
    Member

    Amen to all the above!!
     
  10. Hambone64
    Joined: Oct 5, 2008
    Posts: 131

    Hambone64
    Member

    If gas mileage was really important... Nobody would be here. Dont look for an ECONOMICAL 500. Because when it comes down to it, it doesnt exist. Sure you could keep your foot out of it, but why? Make that sonuvabitch mean lean and quicker than greased owl shit. Have fun with it! And dont forget the Offenhauser valve covers!
     
  11. Rich Rogers
    Joined: Apr 8, 2006
    Posts: 2,019

    Rich Rogers
    Member

    Yeah the earler 472 was 375hp and 525 lbs torque BUT when you add the Edelbrock it goes to 388 hp and 540 lbs according to dyno tests depending on what carb is used.
     
  12. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 6,309

    flynbrian48
    Member

    Which I'd love to use (the Edlebrock), but it raises the carb too much to fit under the hood of the '36! Bummer. Now, I'll have to live the estimated 425 hp my massaged, stock intaked 472 will make. I just don't know what I'll do without that extra 30 hp I'd get with the E intake!
     
  13. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,299

    bobbytnm
    Member

    Here's a pic of my 500 in my 49 F1. Yep, thats Ford blue...lol. You can see how low the stock intake is. My original plan was to go with the Edelbrock intake but I stumbled on a complete factory port fuel injection manifold so I decided to build a MegaSquirt sytem and convert my beast to fuel injection.

    I dropped my engine in without freshening it up a bit. I think it has somewhere over 100K miles on it and has some blow-by at high RPM's. Right now I have 4:11 gears which makes things a bit tough to drive without smoking the tires. I'm planning to change it out for some 3:23's or 3:08's

    I love my big Caddy
    Bobby

    [​IMG]
     
  14. BIGREDTODD
    Joined: Jan 9, 2007
    Posts: 2,835

    BIGREDTODD
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here's a basically stock '76 500 in my '60 F-100, with an Edelbrock intake/750 CFM Edelbrock carb...

    The intake does a lot to make the engine look more spiced-up...
    [​IMG]
     
  15. bobbytnm
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,299

    bobbytnm
    Member

    Compare the intake runners in Todd's pic of his Edelbrock equipped 500 with my stock intake and you can see what I was talking about , how the air/fuel mixture has to come up from the carb to go into the cylinders.

    Bobby
     
  16. I guess I'd rethink putting it in a S-10/15 pickup and save it for something more appropriate. A SBC powered S-10/15 has a hard time getting any traction and a Caddy would be much worse with all that torque and 75 lbs. more weight. A SBC would be a lot easier and more likely would get finished and driven if this is your first engine swap, because you can basically buy everything to do it if you don't have fabrication experience. I think headers and exhaust would be a major problem in this swap too.
     
  17. Gearstix
    Joined: Dec 21, 2008
    Posts: 194

    Gearstix
    Member

    I have no trouble welding stuff up. I love to fabricate.
    Yes its my first swap.I could always make a set of log exhaust manifold or whatever..
     
  18. johnnykck
    Joined: Dec 22, 2005
    Posts: 1,025

    johnnykck
    Member

    My best mileage on a built 512cid putting out over 450hp was 22 MPG doing about 80 mph from Santa Maria, Ca to San Jose,Ca. I have 2.73:1 gears a TH400 and still run low 10's in the quarter when I can get her to hook up
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2008
  19. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 7,813

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    You can't use the Eldo's transmission unless you want to end up with Front wheel drive.(I had a '70 Eldo) ;) But doing a burn out looks wild coming off the front tires.
     
  20. Psychoholic
    Joined: Nov 10, 2005
    Posts: 70

    Psychoholic
    Member

    I've got a 472 in my '72 Caddy Hearse:

    http://psychoholic.net/stuff/burnout.JPG

    http://dead-ends.com/imagegal/4/22/DSCF0991.jpg

    8.5:1, forged pistons, edelbrock dual plane, 910 cfm edelbrock carb (was an 850), 2" primary headers, retarded lunati cam, double row springs, hei, etc...

    Bought a bunch of stuff from Al at MTS (old owner I thing)

    http://500cid.com/

    I've got a spare 472 out of a '68 hearse (11.5:1) with 55k miles on it sitting in my basement that is a serious contender for going in my '51 buick with a TH400.

    The motor in my car has been bullet proof! I drove that heavy bastard from Atlanta to Denver and only had issues with belts and a waterpump. Car uses very little oil, has never met a gas pump she doesn't like and makes enough torque that the tires don't spin - the earth just rotates out from underneath.

    I say do it with a TH400 and some granny gear low 3.* rear gear (2.73 works too).
     
  21. Gearstix
    Joined: Dec 21, 2008
    Posts: 194

    Gearstix
    Member

    Hmm. I will look for a transmission. I was told a Cadillac one will be too long.
    "You can put the short output shaft and 4" tail shaft housing on a Caddy spec TH400, they just didn't come that way. The Caddy 13" tail would likely result in a problem with u-joint angle, especially in a 2 door Blazer, but in a lowered long wheel base truck it could work."

    Hmm. Is there any BOPC transmissions that came with a 4" tail shaft? I don't really understand what the guy is talking about, as I dont know much about transmissions.
     
  22. gpa
    Joined: Jul 28, 2006
    Posts: 38

    gpa
    Member
    from lewis,co.

    I have a 500 in my 52,it has a 400 behind it and a 3.08 gear with 28" tall tires, it had 118000 miles on it when I put it in almost six years ago,I run the DOG-SHIT out of it!!! it still gets 21 out on the road at 70-80 miles an hour and 15-18 around town thrashing on it. It also has a 120 shot of nitrous on it and it has had 26 10lb bottles through it and still doesnt use oil between changes. I strapped a 850 cfm carb that wouldnt run on anything else on it and it works great. I put 6000-10000 miles on it every year and it still starts and runs awesome. By the way, on nitrous, its Fucking BADASS!!It also still has the stock intake manifold on it and a set of headers that I built.
    Phil
     
  23. Gearstix
    Joined: Dec 21, 2008
    Posts: 194

    Gearstix
    Member

    I'm not looking for a race truck or anything.. just want something that can keep up with stuff around me.
    Does it handle the 120 shot fine? Is it stock bottom end and stuff?
    Pics of headers?
     
  24. I had TCI build me a TH400 BOPC trans with the Chevy short tail shaft on it. I think the only difference in Cad VS Chev TH400 is the bolt pattern to the engine and the length of the tailshaft. They didnt seem to think it was any big deal.
     
  25. Gearstix
    Joined: Dec 21, 2008
    Posts: 194

    Gearstix
    Member

    I was looking at TCIs Streetfighter trans's on Summit. I think I could manage to spring that much for a transmission. How much it'd cost you?
    They have ones already made with the BOPC bellhousing.
    I still want to know more about manual valve bodies. I would like to be able to shift an automatic, just for the fun factor. I know the Caddy isn't a high reving engine, actually it would probably redline about the same as the 4 cylinder in my truck...
    But if a manual valve body or whatnot will destroy my trans I won't do it. I dunno. To me, it'd be fun to shift an automatic, and it just adds a fun factor to driving.

    These make me drool.
    [​IMG]
     
  26. I think it was around 1700 for the complete everything included...cooler, lines, fluids, converter...etc etc. Its going behind a 500 Cad and a Gear Vendors OD behind the trans.

    I put this all up for sale awhile back because the ride its going in (not HAMB friendly) was stuck in body paint shop hell for 3 years. Soon as I put it all up for sale my guy finished up his work. Thank goodness it didnt sell. Now I have a winter project.

    I know a bunch of guys that have the 500's in 67-72 Chev trucks and just love them.
     
  27. Gearstix
    Joined: Dec 21, 2008
    Posts: 194

    Gearstix
    Member

    Haha. My truck definitely ain't HAMB friendly, its a 1994. But I like to come here and chat.

    Theres something about the Cadillac 500 that makes me want to buy it and put it, just to see if I can.
     
  28. gpa
    Joined: Jul 28, 2006
    Posts: 38

    gpa
    Member
    from lewis,co.

    No, its not a race truck, but if you dont like burning the tires at 40-50 miles an hour, theres something wrong with you. The engine had 118000 on it when I put it in, the only thing Ive done to it since is run the piss out of it. It has whatever cadillac put on it on the line, and you can bet your ass they werent making 70-90 bucks an hour doing it,wow, we have come a long way havent we? No pics of the headers, nothing fancy,just big tubes and nice sweeping bends. By the way, it has 28x18.5x15 tires and it peels them off with or without the nitrous, its not a pro stock style truck and it gets driven everywhere it goes,like I said 6000-10000 miles a year.
    Phil
     
  29. Gearstix
    Joined: Dec 21, 2008
    Posts: 194

    Gearstix
    Member

    See I was thinkin' of air bagin the rear of my truck, so I'd have to run a larger notch in the rear if I run a taller tire.

    I may not if I drop the Caddy in though.
     
  30. Gearstix
    Joined: Dec 21, 2008
    Posts: 194

    Gearstix
    Member

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