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Technical Cadillac 346 Flathead Headers

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by fiftyv8, Jun 19, 2008.

  1. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    I am looking for any designs for a 346 Cadillac flathead engine.
    I am ready to build a set but dont know where to start.
    Any pic's or ideas would be good.
    How to bolt them down is my 1st problem as anybody who knows these engines will understand what I am talking about.
    Thanks, Russ.
     
  2. I have a CAD drawing if you want to have some flanges CNC cut. Actually, I believe someone here on the H.A.M.B. sells flanges for them.
     
  3. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Thanks Rich, but I have flanges, just need guidance on the pipes and an idea of route or style and of course pitfalls.
    Do I need to cut the flanges to separate the inlet flanges from the exhaust as I am also using a aluminum Burrell 2 x 2 intake manifold and I had not planned to separate them, but it was mentioned by a buddy of mine.
    Russ.
     
  4. emiliedk
    Joined: Dec 29, 2004
    Posts: 614

    emiliedk
    Member
    from denmark

    well Russ i have been doing some thinking about this myself. i will run my caddy in a 32 roadster, like the attached pic. that car is a socal 32, i think his name is kevan. very cool for sure. but living in denmark, i am not sure it would be a good idea. its simply not legal. so i am running my exhaust forward, and down. this way i can have my hood sides on.
    whats the story on you burrell intake. di you buy it from barry!? lets see a couple of pics! soon you can pay VAPHEAD a visit, if you want so take a look at a NOS cadillac flathead. he's building some stuff for me, and the engine is on its way to colorado.
    keep us updated
    palle
     

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  5. dabirdguy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2005
    Posts: 2,404

    dabirdguy
    Member Emeritus

    I had intended to build a 346 Caddy flathead a while back.
    Here's a link to the pics I gathered. I just grabbed them and dumped them into a webpage.
    WARNING....LOTS of pics!

    http://glennsplace.com/new_page_4.htm
     
  6. Heres a picture of the rest of the car.


    CBB
     

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  7. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Guys thanks very much for your contributions so far it is great.

    Has anybody got some close up pic's of how these headers are attached to the block and know how hard is it to get the end ports to seal as there no end bolts on the block?????
    HELP!

    To Richard and Dabirdguy I appreciate your input and Palle, nice to see you are still out there, your opinion is always appreciated. Yes bought the Burrell manifold from Barry and have since got me 2 x 2 bbl carbs to suit.
    I also have my aluminum timing chain cover wooden pattern nearly ready for casting.

    I have a couple of threads on the Modified Cadillac Forum under;
    Fitting Alternator to Flathead & Cadillac Flathead Tech Contributions & What Caddy Heads are these & Hot Rod Project Progress and will be posting a couple more soon.

    Headers are just not my special subject, so I need help from the audience.

    There are some pic's there on the Modified site that I have posted, dont seem to have small enough jpegs for this site.
     
  8. emiliedk
    Joined: Dec 29, 2004
    Posts: 614

    emiliedk
    Member
    from denmark

    Russ heres a photo a bit closer..you might see some details. i am also wondering if this is strong enough.
    please post pics of that cover when its ready. keep in touch
    palle
     

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  9. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Thanks Palle, that was helpful.
    I hope some others will also post some pic's for me.
    I know there not many of us Cadflat guys out there!

    I just come down with the flu but hope to have the pattern finished in about 2 weeks and then take it for casting in what I am told is billet quality aluminum.
    I am only going to cast a low number, the machining costs are going to kill me.
    I have a couple of orders already, but it would be good if I could just cast them and the new owners get them machined.
     
  10. phat rat
    Joined: Mar 18, 2001
    Posts: 4,333

    phat rat
    Member

    If any of you flathead Cad guys need an 11" flywheel and pressure plate I have one, it's for a 39-48.
     
  11. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Not for me thanks, I am running an auto tranny, but I am sure if you posted in the Parts adverts as well some body would appreciate knowing about it.

    If you PM me your details etc I will also post it for you on the Modified Cadillac Forum.
     
  12. attitudor
    Joined: Sep 28, 2004
    Posts: 2,975

    attitudor
    Member
    from Finland

  13. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    hello fiftyv8!

    just wondering if you ever made your headers, and if ypu finished your aluminum timing chain cover's? i'm working on a 346, and would love to see how your headers came out!

    ANY TIMING CHAIN COVERS LEFT FOR SALE? i've got the cyclone heads, and the burrell 2x2 coming, but the cover sure sounds sweet!
     
  14. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

  15. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,497

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

    thats from our yard ,,how'd that happen ? Question have some Caddy heads but the tops are smooth,no lines,,does that mean they are different compression?
    [​IMG]
     
  16. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Satanherself,

    those heads are the stock ones, same as my 37 and 38. The finned ones in the pics are custom heads.
     
  17. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    The lines on the heads actually help ID the model and other info about the head.
    it is to do with width and position.
    Yes the plain heads are the early 1937/38 items that have no markings.
    I believe they are slightly lower in compression, but who cares when you are talking such low compression ratio's any way!
     
  18. sprint35
    Joined: Nov 24, 2010
    Posts: 10

    sprint35
    Member

    We were in impound with you at Bonneville with our XF 35 Ford
    If your engine was 325 CI would you be in XF class
    Thanks
    Jerry Wortman
    #7472
     
  19. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Never did make those headers, I found me a pair of what seemed to be unusual exhaust manifolds that were not joined with the usual bridge pipe setup, so for now I have decided to run with them.

    Pic's posted.

    If I am unhappy with them or they crack etc, I will probably make my own and steal a few ideas from that ace set up made by 38flattie on his Bonneville project engine.

    Congrats Buddy nice record and more to come I hope...
     

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  20. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Jerry, I saw your car there in impound- beautiful car!

    No, XF is Ford only. If my engine were 325, I'd be in XO. It's a 366 CID, so we're XXO. The O stands for 'other than Ford'.

    Thanks for the kind words, Russ!
     
  21. dabirdguy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2005
    Posts: 2,404

    dabirdguy
    Member Emeritus

  22. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Originally I had decided on headers and then went away from the idea as I found a dual exhaust manifold pair possibly from a tank or similar.

    Well I have had a change of mind again and finally I have started to make my own exhaust headers.

    An opportunity has arisen whereby I have access to good quality material as well as bends and the knowledge of a good friend who has a little more experience with this kind of work.

    So we made a start and this is what we have so far:
    • Got a pair of flange plates laser cut using the gasket as a pattern.
    • Made a couple of heavy metal slugs that will be used to help shape the inside diameter of the pipe ends into the block to match the gasket and exhaust port shape exiting the block.
    • Made up a cradle to hold the bends under my press so they will stay vertical while heading and pressing the slugs into the end of the bends.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=674729
     

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    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
  23. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Well, I have gotten to the next stage with my pipes/bends fitted to the flange plate.

    Blacksmithed the pipe ends to fit the flange plate shape, fortunately the bend cradle came in real handy to hold the bends when under my press.

    So with the bend ends squared up and some of which were made at a 45 degree angle to the line of the block for obvious reasons.

    We got onto mocking up a rough layout for the pipes so they can make their way over the heads and downwards where they will link up into a lakes style fluted tube.

    I am no expert on all this stuff so this project is going to be know as Cadillac flathead exhaust headers 101.
     

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  24. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Today, I had some time to work out the direction some of pipes will take.
    So, I cut a couple of bends to the length and shape and then started taping them into position, ready to get them welded.

    I've chosen to use 316 stainless steel pipe and bends for this project.
    Not because I am chasing any sparkle on my build, but because they were available at what I saw as a fair cost and because I hate the rusty look of mild steel pipes over time.

    Another angle I took into consideration, is the fact that because the Cadillac engine exhaust ports out the top of the block, I've seen so much rust fall back into the engine thru the ports that I figured stainless would be less likely to contribute to that problem.

    These pipes are just going to be cleaned up around the welds and left to determine there own finish over time.
    No polishing...

    Anyways it is what it is now and I am on my way.
     

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  25. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    While I have a good source for 316 stainless steel bend, it seems it is only for 90 degree items.

    I will be needing a few 45 degree items also.
    I did a search and found that they can be found but prices were scary and the ones I found came only in 304 stainless.

    So, I decided to make myself a simple guide/jig to cut up my extra 90 degree bends into two 45's.
    I just wanted to be as accurate as possible since it is turning out what I do on one side is going to be replicated on the other side of the engine.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  26. Nice progress Russ. I only asked Pete a comment on his thread last week about his exhaust. Looks like you're headed down the path he went.
     
  27. hawkerdriver
    Joined: Feb 26, 2006
    Posts: 360

    hawkerdriver
    Member

    Did you need more pics of the sledge 32?
     
  28. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Thanks Peddro, its been a while, I hope have also made some progress as well.
     
  29. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Why not it is sure a nice looking roadster with that Caddy engine.
    Post some pic's here or give us a link, either is OK.
    Thanks, Buddy.
     
  30. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 4,970

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    I guess with my focus on this project, I forgot to mention that I am using 1 3/4" diameter pipe on the end ports and 2" diameter pipe on the center ports.

    After following the engine build of 38FLATTIE I saw that he and his team had done something similar.

    I fully appreciate my engine is no Bonneville record breaker but have always understood that the center ports in a Ford flathead had heat exhaust stress and I dont see way the Caddy engine with the same configuration would be any different.

    So to account for this design fact I decided to use 2" pipe.
    In saying that it has caused me some concern as the 2" pipe radius seems a lot greater than the 1 3/4" pipe and hence is causing my pipes to sit very high over the heads.

    I am going to stick with it for now and take comforted from the fact that my plug leads will not get burnt easily.

    I am tempted to cut about 1/2" out of the 2" bend to help reduce the height slightly...
     

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    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013

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