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Technical caddy eng in a 40 ford

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by richard crow, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. richard crow
    Joined: Feb 6, 2006
    Posts: 33

    richard crow
    Member

    is there any std shift transmission that will fit in a 40 ford with out frame mods. exculding a la sal trans car will have open drive
     
  2. JWL115C
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 97

    JWL115C
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Packard? The 1935-38 junior (120 and Six) transmissions have a floor shift. The 1939-54 have a column shift and are top loaders. They were popular back in the day. Why not use a Ford transmission converted to open driveshaft? JWL
     
  3. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 12,185

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    My 40 uses the stock trans and torque tube rear with a 49 331 caddy [​IMG]


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  4. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 696

    fortynut
    Member

    When you exchange the Flathead for a later OHV-V8 you become a stranger in a strange land. Henry's production engine is low compression built to run on the gasoline of the period that had only slighter more octane than the tractor fuel farmers used after warming engines of their equipment with gasoline. WWII changed that because airplanes needed more octane for the horsepower, and the invention of additives to reduce the effects of more compression led to better fuels that returning GIs wanted for their cars after the war. What you are facing is drive train parts designed for low horsepower engines (certainly by today's standards) that relied on torque to make up for lower gear umph to get a Ford going. Not that they weren't faster than most of the pack. Just read Clyde Barrow's letters to Henry Ford explaining why he and Bonnie only stole Fords for getaway cars. ALL THAT SAID, having been where you are, with an Olds engine, you are faced with staying in the wading pool, because with early transmissions using an adapter from Wilco,or others, is that the drive shaft will twist and snap, or wreak havoc on the front U-joint, or rear end, and the Woodruff keys in the hubs, or even the transmission itself. Or, you can move to the deep end and swim. That means taking the plunge and changing to modern drive train parts. The solutions to this varies but are similar in that you update the parts. Not to say you can't find parts to add Lincoln Zephyr gears to a top-loader box, or use various other methods; but, as a hot rodder, doesn't everybody want to burn a little rubber and have a dependable ride? That means every time it breaks, fix it faster. Go with newer parts, and forget about how much trouble it is. That will be gone, the first time you take it out on the road without listening for tell tale noises of drive train failure. This may sound Street-Roddy, but there is also a tradition of going fast safely.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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  5. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 11,802

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The center cradle of the X member is rather shallow, so I doubt you will find any transmission that will fit over it without some cutting. And if you were to find some really short open drive trans, I bet the driveshaft would still come into contact with that cradle. You could raise the engine and trans up a few inches for clearance, but then you would probably be resting your elbow on the driveshaft hump.

    I think you will need to be cutting the top half out of the stock X cradle. You could leave the bottom there to hold your stock front wishbone if that's what you want (I did that a few decades ago for my tudor with a Muncie). I made a new deeper box section in the center cradle, sitting right down to the almost the top of the bottom plate.
     
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  6. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 22,545

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well there you see two different views, Moriarity has run that 40 with that setup as long as I can remember. don't remember seeing a lot of broken parts threads about it and his buds would sure make mention if he broke something. The you have Fourtynut who espounds the concept that stock 40 parts won't handle the bigger engine and have to be change out.
    I'd say it all depends on how hard you figure to pound on the car when you have it all together. For cruising with a bit of sanity and road trips there shouldn't be an issue. If you are prone to burn outs and or plan some drag strip action it might be prudent to go with the heavy duty stuff.
    I keep looking at the banjo rear end out in the shed that I traded for 30 somethng years ago as looking just right under my Model A with the flathead and T 5. No torque tube so it's already a candidate for open drive. Then I start wondering if it will hold up under the road miles I plan to put on the car. It's going to be a skinny tire car but I will no doubt get on it once in a while.
     
  7. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 12,185

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Yup. I put the caddy in my 40 8 years ago. I admittedly don't drive it like I am at the drag strip, but I don't really baby it either. It has 8.20-15 tires on the back. the tread width is something like 5 inches. The tires would surely break loose before parts would break right? Yeah it burns the tires, and gets second gear chirp but I am sure not going to put slicks on it! I guess it all comes down to what you want. I wanted a car just like lots of guys built in the 50's and that is exactly what I have and couldn't be happier with it
     
    F&J, ls1yj, Automotive Stud and 15 others like this.
  8. rpent
    Joined: Apr 16, 2014
    Posts: 27

    rpent
    Member

    I have 30 model A sport coupe which I bought in 1965.it had 48 merc flat head in it. It was what they used call 3/4 race hop up with a 39 floor shift ford tranny,it hung in there well until I blew the motor/rod through the side of the block/Then when I went to a small block chevy,I blew tannys left and right.I had a stack in my mothers back yard 3 ft high.I then went to a 56 chevy manual trans with an after market floor shift and a 58 pontiac wagon rear end Problem solved.

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  9. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,146

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    1. F1 or early Ford Open transmission as mentioned.....
    2. Hogs head adapter" We're just 32 has one" to a 63 up Ford short tail pickup 3.03. The Short tail 3.03 with hogs head adapter is basically the same dimensions as the early Ford. It"s possible to use a Jeep shift top or even the early Ford shift top with some work. Or...just use the 1940 column shift linkage. The 3.03 is fully synchronized.

    Also the toploader 4 speed and the later 3 speed OD 70s-80 s f100 have basically the same case size but longer tails.....the mounting ears may need some work. These will fit the 3.03 hogs head adapter.

    You will need.....
    Caddilac to ealy Ford adapter plate....
    Then, the Early Ford to 3.03/Toploader mini bellhousing or....hogs head.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  10. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,146

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

  11. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 1,280

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would recommend modifying the torque box with a Chassis Engineering kit. I get where you want for the car, but a trans choice like F1 has outlined is much friendlier in use. I have considered this for my truck, just because of the synchronized first gear.
     
  12. fatkoop
    Joined: Nov 17, 2009
    Posts: 699

    fatkoop
    Member

    Almost identical, except mine has a 283, but stock trans./stock 3:78 rear. After about 100,000 miles thru much of America, I too, couldn't be happier.
     
    F&J and Moriarity like this.
  13. 1941coupe
    Joined: Jul 4, 2010
    Posts: 360

    1941coupe
    Member

    IM002330.JPG IM002561.JPG 46 merc 303 olds 39 trans stuffed with 48 gears stock rear never had a problem IM002561.JPG
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018 at 5:22 PM
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