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C4 technical Q

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Speedchop, Feb 2, 2014.

  1. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Guys
    I'm about to shorten my drive shaft.. I understand that I need to check this when I have the shortest distance between rear end and gear box. How much margin should I have before the front yoke bottoms out? Is a 1/4 inch too little?

    Thanks in advance

    Speedy


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  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 43,481

    squirrel
    Member

    Yes, try for 3/4 to one inch
     
  3. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member



    x2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     
  4. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Perfect!

    Thanks guys

    Speedy


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  5. Coyote13
    Joined: Apr 25, 2012
    Posts: 73

    Coyote13
    Member
    from Dallas, TX

    Hate to highjack, but what would be the maximum length of front yoke coming out of the gearbox that you would find acceptable?
     
  6. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Ok, another question.. Since I bougth the car with an unfinished engine swap. I have checked around and it seems it lacks the spacer plate between engine and gearbox. Can I run it without the spacer plate? It definitely lacks the inspection plate in the bottom so I need that one at least. My hair is prolly gonna turn even more grey, if possible, with this car :)

    Speedy
     
  7. You should run the plate. It's there as a 'block saver' if anything gets into the bell so it can't get wedged between the block and the flywheel and break the block...
     
  8. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,786

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    Assuming your C4 is mated to a small block Ford, yes, you need the engine plate.
     
  9. Ahotrod.nz
    Joined: Dec 9, 2012
    Posts: 71

    Ahotrod.nz
    Member

    Speedchop......I'm presumeing you are running a SBF as thats whats usually in front of a C4.
    Yes you do DEFINITELY need the steel plate between Block and Trans. It acts as a locator for your starter motor as well as covers most of the front flexiplate area, stopping stones and stuff getting in there as previously stated. the bottom piece is removable to get to torque convertor bolts. Beware when buying one of these plates as there are at least 3 different ones that I am aware of and probably more.
    1/ early 5 bolt bellhousing.
    2/ 6 bolt small bellhousing.
    3/ 6 bolt large bellhousing. (which houses a bigger diameter flexiplate,hence needing the starter locating further out. A trap sometimes occurs when a large bellhousing is tried to be used with a small flexiplate.......the starter won't mesh in the F/P.)
     
  10. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Thought so.. Crap! Yep, its mated to a 289... I sorta hoped that I wouldn't have to split the engine/trans. Anyway, thanks for the input!!

    I have to fix the drive shaft as well. Currently I have the old drive shaft (which I found out recently) so I need a weld in yoke plus u-joint and a slip for the C4. Does anyone know of one good shop where I can source it all? Preferably in LA. Since I'm in Sweden I'd like to ship once :)

    Thanks Speedy


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  11. Ahotrod.nz
    Joined: Dec 9, 2012
    Posts: 71

    Ahotrod.nz
    Member

    I agree with Squirrel...........no more than 1" though
     
  12. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Ok, I need to find out what I have then. I also read that there are different C4s and two types of well, flywheel or flexplate.. The bugger with the starter teeth.

    Speedy


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  13. jhildebr
    Joined: Feb 1, 2013
    Posts: 22

    jhildebr
    Member
    from San Diego

    Speedchop, Ford made two different flexplates. The 157 is typically used on small (289/302) motors and the 164 is used on 351/C motors. There are also two versions of C4s: pan fill and cases fill. make sure your bell housing is made for the pan or case fill. also the input shaft changed from some of the earlier 24/26 spline to the more common "newer" version with 26 splines. My trans guy Dana Sniff (danasniff@cox.net) is a top tech on these and builds one of the best racing C4s I've run into. John Hildebrand
     
  14. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Ok thanks. See if can pop some photos and maybe, if I'm lucky, we might be able to id whatever I'm running :)

    Speedy


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  15. Ahotrod.nz
    Joined: Dec 9, 2012
    Posts: 71

    Ahotrod.nz
    Member

    Don't get caught out here either folks. There is at least 3 different diameter flexi plates to fit on the back of a SMF,and amongst these 3 different balance weight choices. 26oz,50oz, and 0oz.
    You are lucky. youve got a 289 because it should have a 157 tooth one
     
  16. RidgeRunner
    Joined: Feb 9, 2007
    Posts: 801

    RidgeRunner
    Member
    from Western MA

  17. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Thanks again for the input! I did some diggin around today and here is what I found out so far.
    The box is completely new (or refurbd) from Performance Automatic. Its a super streeter with street n strip valvebody, 26 spline input shaft, pro shift servo, deep alu pan and it features a case fill... It does not have the tapered (towards the bellhousing) case body.

    I also noticed that I have the spacer plate.. But not the inspection cover. Now I only have to find out what bell and flexplate Im running. Its a bit of a nightmare to do a tooth count :) its prolly a 157 tooth flexplate but Id like to be sure before buying a starter.. Any simple ways of figuring out while the driveline is still in the car??

    Thanks Speedy


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  18. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,813

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta


    Quick reference chart.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Thanks Blue One! I'll have a go at the list :)

    Speedy
     
  20. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Hmm, I crawled all over the friggin bellhousing tonight without luck. I didnt find the numbers. It is certainly tight... I'll give it another go tomorrow!

    Speedy


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  21. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,813

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    More C4 info:

    http://www.pigseye.com/sadie/trans/c4.htm

    C4 bellhousing identification is those that are 5-7/8-inch deep use 157-tooth flexplates, and those that are 6-1/4-inches deep are the larger 164-tooth flexplate.

    Picture of numbers.
     

    Attached Files:

  22. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Phew.. after a lot of checking I've come across something that at least looks like what I have.. problem is that I cant access the cast numbers so I dont know for sure. Only prob is that I can identify it (by comparing pictures of the ribs etc) as a "Bellhousing Ford Mustang V6 82/86 aluminum E2AP-7976-CA 164 tooth C4". Whats up with this?? Are they interchangeable or am I far out :) Sorry for the noob Q:s but a friend (who is into Chevys) stated that it might be a challenge with Ford :) This is one of the things with taking over a project I guess.

    Speedy
     
  23. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Hmm, did the tideous tooth count and it's a 164. Would anyone know which starter to use?? Can I use any 2 bolted starter for a 164 tooth flexplate or would that just be too simple :)

    Thanks/ Jonas
     
  24. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Anyone??

    Thanks Speedy


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  25. craftscustoms
    Joined: Mar 16, 2005
    Posts: 219

    craftscustoms
    Member

    I have swapped a starter from a 164 tooth c-4 to the aod trans when I swapped. It works fine. I don't if this helps at all.
     
  26. Speedchop
    Joined: Jul 7, 2013
    Posts: 81

    Speedchop
    Member
    from Sweden

    Thanks!
    I just thought I'd try and check before buying a starter... I'm still a bit pussled about the bell.

    Cheers Speedy


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