Projects Buying long distance

I've been watching car ads for a long time, IME prices on the East coast are significantly lower than here in CA. As an example, there is a 39 Ford coupe, a beautiful car, beautiful red paint, interior is done nicely to match, the flat head is full dressed w/ dual carb intake, finned aluminum heads, nicely painted and chromed, it's a done car, ready to just enjoy. It's been on the market for months, the price is down to $25k. That is at least $10k less than it would command in CA. If it was within 500 miles, and it shows as nice in person as it does online, it would already be in my garage. That is just 1 example, I've got many more. It seems to me the highest prices are here in CA, the prices on even pieces of crap are ridiculous. Prices are a little better up in your neck of the woods, but IME the lowest prices on good cars seems to be the Eastern seaboard, from the Carolina's on up, especially in PA and NJ. That's for nicely done cars, either stock, slightly modified, or nice hot rods like the 39 I mentioned above. There are also some good buys in the Northern middle section of the country, the Dakotas, MO, ID, WY, UT, but these are typically project type cars, survivors. Nice cars but not preserved well, they typically need some metal work, glass, interior, etc; and not a lot of hot rods. Set up a watch list on the Hemmings classified website and watch the cars that come up. The east coast has a ton of nice cars at good prices. A fellow could start a business buying east coast cars and bringing them west.

 

If the title does not match the numbers on the car, the frame specifically, you absolutely cannot legally register it in my state.

I wonder how I know this....

...And when someone who is a professional licensed and bonded vehicle verifier tells you to not buy a vehicle unless you have, or a professional has verified the serial number....

No they are not. I own four. I even have one with legitimate matching engine and frame numbers. The engine is shot, but I have it, and all four are titled in my name.

The last Model A that I verified had matching engine and frame numbers, too.

 

Like arguing with a fence post Gimpy. Evidently the self styled experts aren't impressed with your hours of studying, passing a test and being bonded for the task.
This is a lesson for those building a car with a hidden vin on the frame that does have a clear title with that vin. Document that vin. Take a high resolution before photo of the vin. Take more along the way as work progresses and get some with identifiable and distinct pieces of the build in the photo. That might be that one off hand made bracket that you built for the brake/clutch or ?
Also on the vin, do your damned homework and know what the vin is supposed to read out as, where it should be and if on a plate how that plate was originally attached to the body. I see way too many guys buying 47/53 Chevy trucks who have no clue as to what they are buying according to the vin or identifiable features. That is what I am most involved in so that is where the statement comes from.

On having someone go look at a rig: I've done it a couple of times, took around 100 high resolution photos of the whole vehicle, did a video of it running and checked the vin against the title. Then I sent the info to the prospective buyer (s) with my observations and opinion. I actually have known the seller in one case for over 50 years. I full and well understand having someone who is objective and maybe a bit critical look at a vehicle though. I have looked at rigs that one of my running buddies thinks are great and to me they are pieces of junk best suited for parts rigs.

For the op on going and looking and test driving a rig and then buying it and being afraid that the seller won't ship you that vehicle or will swap parts. If you are that distrustful you had better show up with a truck and trailer when you go to look at the rig and haul it home then and there.

 

Question: Didn't the tri-five Chevrolets use the engine number as the car serial number? I saw that on a one owner CA car we had shipped to NY, it was a six cylinder auto. Thanks

 

It is on a stainless steel plate, welded to the driver's side door jamb, with a "secret" one on the frame, under the driver's seat.

 

Thanks for that info Gimpy. If I remember correctly that plate you mentioned was where you said and it showed both the body and engine numbers. The number on the Ca title was the engine number as we had to have it verified by a police officer. As mentioned, we got this car from the original CA owner black plate and all. The problem would have been more significant if the original plan was followed, a newer V8 installation. I thought the car was too nice and original so another car was purchased.

 

It should have been the frame number, but our DMV employees are world renowned for sloppiness, generating headaches for both buyers and sellers.

At-least they have stopped outright losing paperwork so much.

 

Oh, and one more thing for those unconcerned with having a title that does not match the serial number or VIN:

If you have a serious accident that the police decide to investigate, and your insurance company decides to do a forensic investigation on (fatality, severe injury, excessive property damage. Yes, they do indeed do this. My ex-gf had this as a full-time job. Yup, finding out how to disallow your claim.) and it is discovered that your numbers do not match the paperwork:

YOU WILL NOT COVERED BY YOUR INSURANCE, and if you lived, you might be looking at criminal charges, followed by a hefty civil suit, by whomever was harmed!

 

Starting to see that there isn't really a good reason to finish a build if you live in California.


Bob

 

You do your paperwork, before you start your build, unless you are a fool, and this is the same in most of the US states.

The insurance caveats are in all 50-states, and all US territories.

The only reason someone would "need" to get around these facets would be to circumvent the law, and that makes you a criminal.

 

But, like you said @Mr48chev: fence post.

 

Sent you a message with contact details. Larry

 

I recently bought a truck 2600 miles away in Washington state sight unseen, still waiting on the shipper to pick it up unfortunately. I often think about the shipper removing extra parts that are in the truck bed and how do you know if the seller is including all the parts the ad said it included ?
I'm a trustworthy guy to a fault at times but sure would like the shipper to pick up the truck and get it here so I can actually lay hands on it.

 

My 29 has been in our family since 1969. The original Oregon title matched the engine number. I live in Washington so I needed to get a Washington in my name. Filled out some paperwork, paid some tax, and now have a new Washington title in my name with the same vin. There was no inspection required. After dismantling the car, I found the vin on the frame which doesn't match the engine. I think it would be a huge hassle to go back and get the vin corrected at this point. Good thing I don't plan on ever selling.

 

I dont see the problem. You can buy metal stamps and make whatever id you want. Just make sure the stamp kit has the star and correct 9s / 6s. As they are different on a model a. Its not like the dmv wants you to lift the body/aprons while at the controll.

Sent from my SM-G930F using The H.A.M.B. mobile app

 

Having bought a motorcycle from another G.I. while I was at Ft. Campbell, Ky and then getting out and moving to Florida. then finding out the motorcycle was stolen out of Missouri after I had registered it in Ky and ridden it for a year.
While I was sitting in jail in Florida while my brother who was a Dade county cop was tracing the bike. I said I would never buy another vehicle without tracing the title. I never have and never will.
Sitting in jail accused of grand theft auto will change your prospective and having to surrender your vehicle and having to pay to have it shipped back to the rightful owner will change your loose attitude to vehicle paperwork. Luckily I could prove I was overseas when the bike was stolen.

 

Stamping a VIN from one vehicle, on another vehicle is a Federal felony in the US.

In many states, if a VIN inspection is required, and that number is under the body, an agent of the state WILL gain access to it.

 

Ok . then we are Lucky up here. ID controll should be done "as soon as possible" but theres no real timelimit, within reasonable timeframes off course, so plenty of time to "Check it out yourself" first Its not like they lift the body from the frame on location at the DMV up here . So the owner can do it at home and bring the bare frame down for ID control

 

I have had model A's with the VIN stamped in front of the firewall on the frame rail. Pulled the body and found the original, non matching VIN.

 

Guys, Gimpy is right on all counts, re-stamping a vin or moving a vin plate to another car is very illegal sort of like being a little pregnant. Probably won't become a problem until Shi* happens. It really hits the fan when some guy with a fiberglass car on a repro chassis uses a "historical document" and transfers that vin number. Or how about the Cobra kit car that is titled as a 65 Ford and when the friendly officer runs it through the computer it comes up as a Galaxy. Even if he is not a car guy he knows that is a little shady and your $50k+ car gets confiscated. Is it worth the gamble?

 

If gimpy says he needs to see the number I believe him.
You wouldn't need to dismantle the car unless you needed his signature. You ain't getting it.

When I bought my Vicky I had troubles getting an Ohio title generated for it. The car was from Connecticut (a no title state) and they use the registration for ownership but it was off the road since 1978 and none was available. I eventually got the title after a drawn out process that I needed a lawyer for. I had the body lifted when I hauled it in for the Ohio vin inspection so they could see the numbers on the frame. While there the DMV personnel started some BS about the car not being complete and being unable to issue a title to "parts"

SOOO after all that I built a custom frame for it, so now what?

Many years ago I bought a Harley from Canada, that had to go thru customs for vin verifications. Nerve wracking.

 

When laws don’t allow for the honest history of a car that has had honest repairs done then the laws need fixing. The reality is that the local officials that are enforcing these laws have no clue where to find the VIN number on a Model A Ford let alone being able to decipher if it is original or restamped. To say someone is a criminal for adjusting a car to match the paperwork that came with it when it was all legally obtained is a stretch. It’s the reality of dealing with 80 year old cars the have been dead and resurrected multiple times. There is nothing to be gained by restamping a Model A as a Model A. Now if you restamp a Mustang into a Shelby, now you are perpetrating a fraud, making something from nothing. Correcting a VIN due to frame or engine swaps in the past isn’t the same thing.

 

I am not entirely certain how you could be more wrong.

1. There has always been a correct and legal process in-place for replacing serialized items on a motor vehicle, since the 19-teens in many states.
2. Individual DVM/RMV and law enforcement employees might not know exactly where to look, but they all have access to the book that tells them where to look, and exactly what the stamps look like, with photos. Maybe they are all Barney Fife, out in Leander RFD, but that is NOT the case across this nation.
3. If you have legally obtained the vehicle, there is an extant process, in all 50-states, to get title for it (or just registration, in states that don't title old stuff). It is when you refuse to follow it, and go your own way, you become a criminal.
4. It's only reality if there was criminal activity along the way.
5. Fraud is fraud. You can try to explain that there was no real gain to a DA and a judge, and see how it goes.
6. Yes, it is.

I cannot believe the responses here. What you guys are suggesting doing, if thought to be widespread, will bring the hammer-of-the-law down on all of us. You will bring unwanted scrutiny to our hobby.

Nothing brings unwanted legislation like unwanted scrutiny. That is the fast-track to us all driving Hondas and Toyotas, with a profound sense of dissatisfaction.

 

Gimpy- I don't know how you could make it more clear. There will always be the people that can rationalize it to themselves so it must be ok with others including the people that are charged with making sure the laws are followed.

If they lose a car and their money it might dawn on them but probably not.

 

I'm done. Time to lock the thread.