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Bump to the top....Primer, Bodywork, Paint Help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by TrannyMan, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. TrannyMan
    Joined: Dec 3, 2005
    Posts: 473

    TrannyMan
    Member

    I need some help.
    I have been doing my own bodywork, patch panels, dent pulling etc. I have gotten the body looking pretty good with the long board. Shot some primer, Using Z-Chrome (butternut). Long boarded it again, found some low spots, Fixed them, Re-shot it again, looks pretty good, so I am at this point.
    Questions:
    I put three light coats of primer over the car, but I can still see the shadows of the body filler underneath. Do I keep applying primer till I can see no shadows?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Also I got some fine scratches and small pits, What can I fill them with? I got some red glazing putty from the parts house but is that stuff any good? Some people are now saying that they have had problems with it.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  2. tb33anda3rd
    Joined: Oct 8, 2010
    Posts: 14,420

    tb33anda3rd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Connecticut HAMB'ers

    wipe it down with a rag soaked in "Prekleano" and see if you can see waves while it is wet. feeling the panel through a rag will also highlight any waves.
    no to the red stuff, it is not catalyzed and it will shrink.
     
  3. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,349

    flamedabone
    Member

    After the first round of primer, you will still see filler shadows. Block it then shoot your second round of primer and they should be gone. If not, sand and prime again.

    If you are going to use any glazing putty, get the good shit and only use it for small pinholes and sand scratches. If you build it up at all, it will shrink, chip, fall off or something equally terrible.

    Good luck, -Abone.
     
  4. 62chevy
    Joined: Feb 23, 2011
    Posts: 9

    62chevy
    Member
    from manitoba

    In my opinion you should apply heavier coats of primer, filler should not be visible under the primer. As for the pinholes and scratches, I would not use any filler that does not use a hardener. There are 2 part fillers made for small imperfections, see your local body shop supply store if you need info on what to use. You may be doing this already, but a guide coat,Either in a spray bomb or a powder form, is very helpful in seeing small imperfections when you get down to this stage of the bodywork
     
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  5. Noland
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,237

    Noland
    Member

    I think you might need more primer. you shouldnt be able to see bodywork threw primer. it will show in your paint. The red glazing putty is no good it shrinks. you can just mix alittle fiberglass resin with you bodyfiller. it will make it thinner like glaze, or you can buy catalyzed glaze.
     
  6. mazdaslam
    Joined: Sep 9, 2004
    Posts: 2,525

    mazdaslam
    Member

    Block what you have then use regular body filler to fill any pinholes then reprime. Then you should be ready to final sand for paint.


    Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad
     
  7. TrannyMan
    Joined: Dec 3, 2005
    Posts: 473

    TrannyMan
    Member

    Thanks Guys,
    I will throw that red glaze chit I got in the trash.

    I tried to bondo the small imperfections but I just can't seem to get the bondo to where there isn't another small imperfection when i am through. It's driving me nuts. I got some metal glaze that is two part, put it seems to runny to get it to stay where I need it.

    I have been using guide coat to see where the spots are. I washed it today and looked down the sides and it looks pretty good but I will try the "Prekleano"if I can find it.

    This is the first time I have ever tried anything likes this. I took the car to a body shop and the cheap guy wanted 7k+ to do the body and paint, and his work was just okay looking. I have been working on it for months and all my Non car buddies (and wife) have been looking at me like I am freakin nuts.
    I may never paint another car in my life, but I need to hit this one out of the park.
     
    reagen likes this.
  8. rustang
    Joined: Sep 10, 2009
    Posts: 710

    rustang
    Member

    I found out a couple of things the hard way... I'm no pro, but have done a few cars and bikes....
    1. You need good materials...I like Evercoat (Rage, etc.)
    2. apply filler over a larger area than what you think you will need, not thicker, but "surface" area.. this will give you more area to block, but will not have you chasing your tail filling low spots.
    3. good set of blocks... I bought some Durablocks and they work great...i usually only use 3M paper and not cheap chit....I also use other things to block with (cut off paint paddles, snowmobile hyfax, etc) tight areas, etc you need to improvise.. :)
    4.Use a decent high build primer....I usually use Nason 421 and it builds good, and can be blocked fairly quick.....
    Good Luck
    Tom
     
  9. TrannyMan
    Joined: Dec 3, 2005
    Posts: 473

    TrannyMan
    Member

  10. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 21,617

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    go to an automotive body and paint supply store for correct fillers, primer, etc. remember, whatever you use will need to be compatible with whatever brand/type of paint you will be using.
     
  11. henry29
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,796

    henry29
    Member

  12. slddnmatt
    Joined: Mar 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,669

    slddnmatt
    Member

    I use GlazeCoat from Evercoat to fill pinholes and little imperfections. it runs like honey and dries quick
     
  13. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 5,620

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    Yes, toss out the red lead, and use a catalyzed glaze for tiny imperfections. And definately primer and sand, and primer and sand until you cannot see any filler shadows.
     
  14. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,641

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    You're gettin some good advice here. What you're seeing is the primer solvents getting absorbed by the filler. What grit are you finishing your filler with? Finer grits can slow that effect down some. Evercoat Metal Glaze and USC Icing are good pinhole fillers and are supposed to be runny and fast setting. Did that filler go over bare metal? If not, you may also be seeing the edges of a base or epoxy primer. Many will say that never happens, but it does. Just to be safe, block that out and ignore it as long as you can. You'll have "opened up" the top coat of primer and allowed more solvents to escape which is a good thing. I'll bet you can smell it pretty strong after it's 1st sanded. Be sure to seal it, and even then, maybe wait a day and scuff your sealer real well with 800 or 1000 wet. You don't want that stuff ghosting out under your $paint$.
     
  15. Pugly
    Joined: Jan 17, 2010
    Posts: 70

    Pugly
    Member

    I finished out the filler with 180 grit. Most of the filler went over bare metal. A small amount was over the Z-Chrome primer to fill in a couple of low spots.

    When I first sand the primer, It smells like fiberglass. (?)

    I have to seal the primer? The paint shop said you can shot paint right over it. What do I seal it with? (duh sealer) but what kind?


    I can definitely primer and sand some more, The Z-Chrome I am using is a very light butternut color. They had two different tints and the supply house said to use this one for light colors. The darker primer may hide the underlying bodywork with less coats.
     
  16. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,641

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Your primer's a 2K so any sealer/color/clear system should be fine. You want to stay within your topcoat brand for sealers. I use PPG products and seal with PPG Shopline epoxy reduced 25%. I may not be familiar with your brand of product, but they should be listed. Some have tinted sealers for different colors.
     
  17. 444
    Joined: Feb 17, 2011
    Posts: 15

    444
    Member
    from Canada

    Check the p sheets for the paint you are using, some colors will require a sealer in order for the color to come out right.

    That's what I do too. But yes you do have to carefully work in the filler so that you don't create more pinholes as you try to fill them. If you use any kind of a glazing putty, use something catalyzed. That catalyzed stuff is crap, I tried it.
     
  18. TrannyMan
    Joined: Dec 3, 2005
    Posts: 473

    TrannyMan
    Member

    Well, Bump to the top for more help.

    After two more coats of primer, I can still see the shadows. I wet sanded the primer (it says you can) with 220 and then 400 and it's baby butt smooth but you can still see the shades of the filler under the primer. It isn't nearly as bad as before but it's still there. I have shot TWO (yea 2) gallons of primer on the car and I am thinking I need to just shoot a cover primer over it. Maybe a gray color seeing that I am going with a light blue for paint.

    [​IMG]

    I guess the picture isn't really showing the shades. It was worse when wet..It isn't bad but I have never painted before, so I really don't know. The primer says you can paint directly over it, no sealer or other primer needed.

    I am going off of a previous bad experience with a car I paid to have painted. It was a dark blue car that I color changed to red. After I got it back, in direct sunlight you could "see" the blue under the red in some places. I don't need that happening here.
     
  19. icsamerica
    Joined: May 23, 2012
    Posts: 62

    icsamerica
    Member

    What gun and tip are you using for primer? Should be a 1.7 to 1.8 tip. 220 is a bit aggressive, seems like you are sanding off most of what you're spraying. Try another coat to even it up and sand back with 400 or 600 wet. You have to get your primer as even as possible for confidence...if it's not even you may have doubt when spraying your color coat and that will efff with your head.

    In general red doesnt cover well. I've used 200$/gal and 700$/gal red and the expensive paint covered only slightly better. Tint the primer dark gray or red when shooting red. If you do this you should not sand through the top coat of tinted primer when shooting colors that dont cover well. If you do you will have to pretreat any spots with base then shoot the whole car. Sometime's I add 10% base to the last primer coat when shooting red. But they have to be compatible.

    Get a smooth board and paint 1/3 grey, 1/3 white and 1/3 black top to bottom. Then spray your base on the across all three so you can gauge your coverage so you know what you're working with and what to expect. For example Red would probably need 5 coats to cover even green would probably cover in 3.
     
  20. TrannyMan
    Joined: Dec 3, 2005
    Posts: 473

    TrannyMan
    Member

    I got a 1.7 tip...

    I am out of primer again. I need to buy another gallon, just didn't want to buy the same stuff if I am going to have to go over and over....

    Here's the stuff I am using..
    [​IMG]

    maybe that;s the issue... It says for professional use. :)
     
  21. From what I can find on the net about z chrome, it is a polyester based primer.
    In the tech section it says to topcoat with a 2k primer.
    Switch to a urethane based primer/sealer for the last primer before paint.
    Make sure you have complete coverage ,meaning no sanded through spots.
    That way there should be no ghosting or spots showing through your paint.
    depending on your color choice, a colored sealed may be recommended also.
    Yellows,reds are typically the worst for coverage.
     

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