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Building Wicked 235?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bryanhes, Mar 16, 2011.

  1. Bryanhes
    Joined: Jan 22, 2011
    Posts: 97

    Bryanhes
    Member

    Was browsing Youtube and came across this 235. It just sounds bad @ss!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D8KAK7Z7Ek

    Do any of you guys have build specs on a 235 that you have done to make more power, sound nasty wicked & maintain daily drivability and reliability.

    This is for my 53 Club Coupe. It currently has a 1958 235/ 3 on the tree. Whick I would probably keep & go with a little taller gears than the 3.7:1's that are in it for a little better highway cruising.

    Here is a Photoshop of close to the colors I want it to be. The light blue is the original Horizon Blue. Not sure what the dark blue is but I love the colors together. The truck picture is the actual color. A fiend did a quick Photoshop for me. The hubcaps are actually the original dog dish size. I plan to paint the wheels the same as the light blue with a dark blue pinstripe like the top color.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Thanks,

    Bryan
     
  2. terd ferguson
    Joined: Jun 13, 2008
    Posts: 3,718

    terd ferguson
    Member

    For a full tilt stovebolt, be prepared to spend. And if you're gonna spend and really want more power, try looking for a 261. My buddy Delton (hotdamn!) has a full tilt 235 that's bored, head shaved, Howard rough idle cam, a couple of carbs and fentons. He's added mufflers, but it sounded better before although loud. It is very fast.

    I had full intentions of doing the same with my 261 in my '55 chevy pickup but found my dream engine (cadillac). LOVE those stovebolts!!! There's plenty of info here, try searching and you'll be surprised with the wealth of info available.
     
  3. hotdamn
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 2,211

    hotdamn
    Member

    if it still has the stock lawn mower trans, you are most likely gonna wad that up with a hot stovebolt due to all the torque. also if your gonna do a different gear you will need to swap out the rear which means you would have to go open anyways.

    few things to know

    car 55-62 235 bellhousings will work or the easier to find truck 47-62 216-235-261 bellhousings will work. your stock bellhousings bolt pattern is too small for an open drive trans.

    a stock saginaw should be fine unless you got seriously deep pockets to make the nastiest stovebolt alive:)

    also remember that your rear mounts differently in a 49-54 than it does in a later rear. the locating pin is offset by a inch or so. you need to measure to make sure.

    anyways you can make your own adapter to move your rear back, buy one from yogi's or buy a set of lowered springs from jamco or posies and ask for the ones with the pin already moved back.

    I know this is long but these are the things that ya gotta do before dumping a ton of cash into a hot engne as you are only as strong as your weakest link...
     
  4. Bryanhes
    Joined: Jan 22, 2011
    Posts: 97

    Bryanhes
    Member

    I know a guy that has plenty of 55-57 rear ends. I plan on picking one up from him to go to an open drive. I know you can either redrill or as you said pick up a lowering ste from someone.

    I was not to sure about the three speed and how it would hold up. I am not thinking about going to crazy on the engine but the video I posted from youtube sounds pretty sweet.

    Thanks for the info
     

  5. hotdamn
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 2,211

    hotdamn
    Member

    yeah the tri 5 rears will fit nicely. do yourself a favor though. what ever rear you get if it needs axle bearings run the numbers first. I know some 57 rears are one year only axle bearings that cost upwards of a bill. I found this out the hard way.
    the cheap option is an 4x4 s-10 rear, they are 4" wider than a stock s-10 rear and fit perfectly width wise.

    they are just ugly:)
     
  6. hotdamn
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 2,211

    hotdamn
    Member

    and honestly with the stock 53 trans, they dont really hold up to much abuse.
     
  7. I don't know that wicked and 235 should be used in the same sentance. :D:D

    I actually had a '53 wagon that had a Blue Flame that originally destined for a '54 Corvette. It sounded good and was pretty peppy for what it was. I'm thinking that if I wanted a putt putt motor and didn't want to invest in the full one race six that would be a good formula to follow. Specs shouldn't be too hard to find.
     
  8. Bryanhes
    Joined: Jan 22, 2011
    Posts: 97

    Bryanhes
    Member

    Maybe I should have clarified a little. It does not have to be wicked fast but I want more than stock with reliability and something along the lines of it sounding sweet ;) I dont want 8K into it, LOL!

    I can have my hoice of rear ends that he has for $100. He has several third members that he pulled years ago, oiled up and bagged them. He said he would give me my choice of gearing. Since I want to be able to cruise on the highway at 70 with no problem I was thinking a 3.36 with my three speed should be good I think.
     
  9. hotdamn
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 2,211

    hotdamn
    Member

    yea that would be doable, just remember if we are still talking about tri 5 rears they are open and your trans is closed.
     
  10. Bryanhes
    Joined: Jan 22, 2011
    Posts: 97

    Bryanhes
    Member

    Can I not use my 3 speed with an open rear end? I know there is a tube on the original, I just thought it could be sealed. Never got that in depth about trans to driveshaft info in changing to an open. Guess I need to look at my shop manual in that area.
     
  11. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member

    Nope, you won't be able to use your trans with an open drive trans. You wouldn't want to anyways. With mid to high three gears, why not look to a S-10 five speed and get better gear spread and Overdrive to make things freeway friendly all at the same time? Just avoid the four cylinder versions of this trans... 4.03 first sucks.
     
  12. Little Terry
    Joined: Oct 17, 2007
    Posts: 562

    Little Terry
    Member

    I built what i consider to be a nice 235 - bored .080", cam, dual carbs, fenton headers with cherry bombs, full split exhaust, polished and balance the crank and rods etc, 5 speed, open drive rear, drop tube front etc.

    Have a look at the link in my signature line - there is some Youtube footage too, so you can hear it run.

    Here is a quick vid.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmGwgC8O0WY

    Cheers,
    LT.
     
  13. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Sticking my nose in someone else's business. If you can build a 235 that sounds "Mean" and is reliable. For a relatively few dollars more you should be able to come up with a 302 GMC. Near bolt in. Few will know it's not a 235. Much better engine from the drawing board. 67 cubic inches more right at the start. Made to be a reliable long haul truck engine in the day. Mine went 202 on one occasion. Sounded mean. Not to reliable, but you could back off a little from what I was doing.
     
  14. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    Here is something I wrote on another site about upgrading the driveline on a '49-54 car. It talks about using a T5, which is what I would recommend if you really want to use a barely streetable engine. An engine like you are proposing will loose alot of bottom end torque, having good gearing to help launch is essential, but that kind of gearing hurts your top speed, so you use overdrive to compensate (lowers your engine rpms at cruising speed). The only really good choice to cover both ends is a 5spd like the T5:

    "as for buying a pre-'89 S10 T5, put your eyes on it before you buy one. S10s came with both cable driven and electric speedos back then, and the senders aren't interchangeable, so get the right one the first time.

    If using the stock S10 shifter, you might have to heat it up and bend it some so you don't hit your hand on the dash...

    As for the bellhousing, you have two options. Keep the stock one and use an adapter plate, or switch to a newer bellhousing. Problem with switching to a newer bellhousing is that the '49-54 cars have a unique fork angle. None of the later bellhousings have this, which means the clutch linkage won't hook up and work right. At best the clutch will grab about 2" off the floor. I do make a fix for it, though. If you go with the adapter plate, all you need to do is come up with the money for the adapter plate. No clutch linkage issues.

    You will need to cut out the center portion of the cross-member and make a bolt in replacement that includes the rear trans mount. You'll need to be able to weld.

    you'll need to modify the emergency brake setup also, but it doesn't take much to do.

    you'll need to switch over to an open drive rearend. '55-57 cars work well. S10 4x4, and some Camaro & Novas work well too. '58-64 cars are the same as '55-57, except you would need to cut off the stock brackets and weld on some new spring perches.
    Note that the center of the rearend is not directly over the spring bolt. You will need to drill a more forward hole in the perches and also in the new lower spring plates that you will need to get. Depending on the rearend yo get, you may be able to reuse your E-brake cables, otherwise you'll need to make the newer ones work for you.

    Make sure you pay attention to gear ratios. S10 T5's don't have as good of gearing as V8 Camaros do. Most people find a rear gear in the 3.42 - 3.73 range works good for them. Run the numbers through an online gear calculator and shoot for around 2200 rpms at 65mph with an internally stock 235 engine.

    Some guys say you need to upgrade the rear springs as well, but I know of several guys running sixes in these cars that are still using the stock springs. I would put it all together and see before I spent the money on new springs....

    I would suggest finding the trans before I worry about finding a rearend.... "​
     
  15. Bryanhes
    Joined: Jan 22, 2011
    Posts: 97

    Bryanhes
    Member

    I am thinking that if I changed the transmission I would not want a 5 speed on the floor. What about changing to a 3 speed auto with the push button overdrive? Thinking I could just change out the column? I would like to keep things pretty simple and not modify the car to much.

    Thoughts if I stayed with the mild six?
     
  16. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    if by push button overdrive you mean push button automatic, that would be Mopar, not Chevy.
    A 350 auto would require a $350 adapter. Without OD, you would want to run a 3.08-3.36 rearend gear which will totally kill the performance ability of the 235. Use a 200-4R or a 700-R4 instead and you can end up with something similar to what you would get with a T5, only not as cool..... and you still need to convert to an open driveline.

    as for setting up the drivetrain behind a 235, The only real difference between going hot or mild is how you have to gear it, and if you go with an automatic, what stall speed to get for the converter.

    If you punk out and keep the stock driveline but do some mods to the motor, a single 4bbl, a dual pattern solid camshaft, bowl porting the head, and Fenton headers is going to be the safest mild street 235. A 2x1 setup instead of the 4bbl if you aren't afraid to learn how to setup dual carbs correctly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2011
  17. Bryanhes
    Joined: Jan 22, 2011
    Posts: 97

    Bryanhes
    Member

    It was actually the chevy 3 speed manual with overdrive is what I was thinking, working and thinking about cars, lol!
     
  18. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    3 speed OD is open driveline only as well. Not anywhere near as good of a choice as a T5.
    The 3spd with or without OD has a huge rpm drop when going from 2nd into 3rd. It will kill the performance ability of a warmed over 235. Been there, not doing it again. If you are set on using a 3spd, you'll just have to live with it.
    Run the numbers and see what rpms @ 65mph a 3spdOD with 4:11 rearend will get you. 3:70 or 4:11 would be the only meaningful choices if using that trans in order to minimize the 2-3 shift issue and still go down the highway....
     
  19. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    If you have plenty of money you can put in a Turbo-Hydro 350 and Gear vendors overdrive. Give you everything you want. My new Chevy truck is coming with a 6 speed OD automatic. Probably weighs 2000 pounds. But I am hoping it's got all the gears anyone could want.
     
  20. The Stig
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 15

    The Stig
    Member
    from The Moon

    I punched it out to a 244, got the Patricks 264 cam, balanced the motor and put a holley 390cfm carb on it. Its got Fenton headers and 12" glasspacks. I still have the stock 3speed on it but I have a new t5 ready to be installed. According to my math at 75mph on the freeway ill be about 2800 rpm! It has craploads of power from idle all the way to 5 grand, not bad for an inline 6!
     

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    Last edited: May 15, 2011
  21. 'Mo
    Joined: Sep 26, 2007
    Posts: 7,431

    'Mo
    Member

    I) A good dual carb set-up alone can boost your six's HP as much as 10%.
    II) All Chevy sixes sound good with split pipes.
    III) Powerglide gears for your stock rear were 3:55's, = good for the highway.
     
  22. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    nice car...
    You do realize that you will need to change to an open driveline which means a new rearend, which means your math on the rpms may be off depending on what rearend gearing you end up with...
     
  23. The Stig
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 15

    The Stig
    Member
    from The Moon

    Really? You sure?? I had no idea. What was I thinking??? What the hell is a torque tube?
     
  24. The Stig
    Joined: Oct 13, 2009
    Posts: 15

    The Stig
    Member
    from The Moon

    I have an S-10 4x4 with 3.73's too.
     

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