Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical BRAKES..........F100 brakes on 37 to 48 Ford spindles..

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Deuce Roadster, Dec 9, 2003.

  1. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]


    Lots of traditional rodders use the F100 brakes on early Ford spindles (1937 to 1948). Here's HOW I DO IT. I am sure there are other ways. [​IMG]


    I use 1953 to 1956 F100 hubs, backing plates and drums. They have the advantage of self-energize......or they help apply themselves. They are 11 inches in diameter and 2 inches wide ( so early finned Buick aluminum drums...will not work they are 12 inches in diameter ).

    The early Ford (37 to 48) hubs and the F100 (53 to 56) share the same outer wheel bearings and cups. Bearing # 09067 and cup # 09195 are the numbers. No adaptating needed here.

    You need # 14116 inner bearing to adapt the F100 hub to the early Ford spindle . The inner bearing cup (# 14276) works..as is. I always replace them NEW to prevent problems. You will need Victor seal #49195.

    Often times, a very small amout of grinding is required on the top of the spindle and the rear of the wheel cylinder where there is interferance on the 37 - 41 spindles. I have never had to grind a 42 to 48 spindle.

    When parts hunting, I will buy 66 F100 brake shoes and hardware. They are self-adjusting. The earlier ones are not. 1953 to 1966 F100 brake drums interchange. I buy them new but good used is OK (but hard to find here in the Southland). I only use 53 to 56 backing plates. They are easy to come by (all the Mustang II changeover guys will give you the JUNK they do not want [​IMG] [​IMG])


    Some rodders say that they have had to slightly grind the inner wheel bearing so that it does not interfere fit with the spindle. This may be true.....but I have never had to do this. I use TimKen bearings ALWAYS......

    Also....by the way......bearing and race numbers are standardized. The numbers I gave for the cups and bearings will interchange....TimKen, Koyo, NAPA, Bower/BCA......all will fit. Seals are not standardized...... [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Heres mine....on the 32......

    [​IMG]

    I like the F100 brake swap because it improves the brakes, they have the 5 on 5.5 early wheel pattern and it's old timey traditional. I realize that disc are better but this changeover was HIGH TECH back when I got the roadster...over 25 years ago. [​IMG]



    .
     
  2. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    Can you run '35 Ford wire wheels with adaptor rings against the F-100 drum?
     
  3. I have the same set-up on my mor-dor and have 16 inch kelsey's with no adapter ring,,,,
     

    Attached Files:

    mdimages and LOU WELLS like this.
  4. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,503

    manyolcars

    Those brakes also work on 35-36 spindles with the addition of a small ring to fill the gap between spindle and the center hole of the backing plate. I've never had to grind on my inner bearings either. The first time I did this was 1973 and grinding the bearing was not part of the job.
    Hotrodprimer, the inner face of the 35 wheel is 1 1/16 from the face of the brake drum. What fills that space on your car?
     

  5. Paul2748
    Joined: Jan 8, 2003
    Posts: 2,192

    Paul2748
    Member

    From what I heard (I have the same setup) that the inner bearing will probably not come off once you get it on (and it will go on)if you don't grind because of the differnece in the radius of the front spindle and the conversion bearing. I ground it just to be sure. I don't know about Kelsey's, but the Ford 35 wires WILL NOT fit on the 53-56 brakes unless you use about a 1 3/8 SPACER ( no adapter needed)because the outside diameter of the hub on the wheel hits the drum before the wheel mounting point of the hub. Look at the difference between the pre 49 drums and post 48 drums. One is entirely flat while the other has a raised wheel mounting surface. I have 35 wheels on 53-56 brakes and I went through this. According to the so-called experts, the outside if the wheel hub should not rest on the drum. This seems right
     
    5belair likes this.
  6. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    [ QUOTE ]
    From what I heard (I have the same setup) that the inner bearing will probably not come off once you get it on (and it will go on)if you don't grind because of the differnece in the radius of the front spindle and the conversion bearing. I ground it just to be sure.

    [/ QUOTE ]



    I have heard this......that's why I mentioned it BUT I did not grind mine (or others I have done/or been involved with) and had no problems. I had my hubs off the redo the king pins/bushings. I had them off to change out backing plates......I found a set good enough to chrome. I had them off to repack the bearings and replace the seals.

    Not a problem....so far....they came off easily..... [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  7. visor
    Joined: Aug 11, 2002
    Posts: 513

    visor
    Member
    from Missouri

    On my '40 I had to take a small amount off
    the inner bearings. They would stick on the spindle
    when I went to remove them.
    These brakes and plates will also work on
    the 32,33, and 34 spindles with the addition of a
    bearing adapter and ring spacer.
    (both available from the aftermarket)

    The ring spacer to use is a model A piston ring.
    Works for the 35 and 36 spindles to fill the gap
    between the backing plate and spindle.

    I used a 60's chevy single truck master cylinder ( Its
    actually a combo cluch/brake unit.) and man does my
    40 stop! Well at least better than the stock 40's did.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    "OPOSSUM BENDER"
    Central Missouri Chapter
     
  8. el Roach
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 593

    el Roach
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    GREAT POST GUYS THANKS! [​IMG]
     
  9. NealinCA
    Joined: Dec 12, 2001
    Posts: 2,929

    NealinCA
    Member

    BTTT. Some of these TECH posts rolled off to never never land too quick.

    Neal
     
    67L36Driver likes this.
  10. Nick32vic
    Joined: Jul 17, 2003
    Posts: 3,030

    Nick32vic
    Member

    This is a good post. Im doing this right now. Thanks
     
  11. nobux
    Joined: Oct 19, 2002
    Posts: 642

    nobux
    Member

    I'd like to say thanks, too. I picked up the bearings and seals today.
     
  12. sport fury
    Joined: Jul 25, 2009
    Posts: 593

    sport fury
    Member

    as far as interchange of the brake drum go it seems that when trying to see if the drums are the same from 53-66 on auto parts websites it looks as if they go from 53-63 and then 64 and up.
     
  13. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,130

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just found all 28 to 48 outer hub bearings are not all the same and not all interchange with the f100 hubs. Went to my local ford vintage supplier and grabbed some outer bearings and cups for 28 to 48 v8. Excellent timken bearings 09067 and cup 09016 to fit flathead. I did not check the part numbers . Got home fitted them up and could not get the spindle nut on far enough. Sure enough the part number for the new cup was 090196 and should have been 090195. The new flathead cup was about 3mm or nearly 1/4 inch wider. So be aware to check those part numbers to be sure all flathead parts are not created equal. Just because you read use flathead outer bearing on an f100 hub .
     
  14. Trucker Jim
    Joined: Mar 28, 2016
    Posts: 67

    Trucker Jim

  15. Trucker Jim
    Joined: Mar 28, 2016
    Posts: 67

    Trucker Jim

  16. Randy Radford
    Joined: Nov 17, 2004
    Posts: 48

    Randy Radford
    Member

    Keeping this for future reference good write up
     
  17. 100% Matt
    Joined: Aug 7, 2006
    Posts: 2,633

    100% Matt
    Member

    Can you use 57-60 F100 brakes? I have a set on the shelf.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  18. Nope, the hubs and the backing plates will not fit the early spindles.
     
  19. 100% Matt
    Joined: Aug 7, 2006
    Posts: 2,633

    100% Matt
    Member

    That’s what I thought, guess they’ll stay buried on the parts shelf


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  20. FlatJan
    Joined: Dec 13, 2013
    Posts: 273

    FlatJan

    Can someone please post pics and part numbers for connecting brake hose to line? i have problems locating the right stuff.

    thanks guys
     
  21. ^^^^^
    If you are using ¼” brake lines, a BH16179 hose may work for you. 15-3/8” long, 3/8x24 male & 7/16-24 female.
    If you are using the smaller 3/16” lines, a BH84517 may work for you. 16” long, 3/8x24 male & female.

    Regular old '39-'48 bolt on frame mounts look appropriate too.
     
  22. FlatJan
    Joined: Dec 13, 2013
    Posts: 273

    FlatJan

    thanks Rich, that helps a lot!
     
  23. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,661

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    I as most have ran this Brake set up for many many trouble free miles . Only difference is mine swap is 48-52 , they will work also but no mixing parts . You use 48-52 or 53-56 hubs have a different spacing and set the drum at a different depth .I have always had to grind or sand the top of the spindle to clear the drum , never touched the wheel cylinder as I remember . The radius on the spindle is different than that of the inner bearing , you may get it to fit and be able to remove it , but be aware they are different , and you may end being the first one that it will not come off the spindle without some help . Disc kits were available when I built my car , but I love the fact , it’s old HotRod tech and it works great and I don’t have Chebby calipers on Henry’s tin . This swap was originally supposed to use early Mustang MC . Just research as I did and get a MC with same bore size and all should be well , with many miles of stopping safely ahead of you . The rear drums from a 87-91 F100/150 or Bronco are supposed to work , they are about 1/3 the price of 66 truck drums the last time I looked . I’m not sure the years on the later drum , maybe another Hamber can help out with this info . I always like to use non self adjusting brakes on my HotRod , it gives me a chance to grease the front ent parts and u mints as well as inspect the under side while I am under there adjusting my brakes . If you don’t care to do this self adjusters are there as explained earlier . Good Luck and always be safe .
     
    RICH B likes this.
  24. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,038

    fortynut
    Member

    I added F100 brakes on my '37 Coupe, but found they faded out from use at Freeway speeds. I went to a SuperBell disc kit that used Mustang calipers and the proprietary SuperBell rotor. It was a set-up that was as close to perfect as you could ask for.
     
  25. sport fury
    Joined: Jul 25, 2009
    Posts: 593

    sport fury
    Member

    I am installing 1955 ford f100 front brakes onto 46-48 spindles. I bought the bearing set from speedway motors and speedway says to use 1966 front brake parts so as to have self adjusting brakes. I have found all the parts I need but have found there are two different front wheel cylinder bore sizes that are listed. 1 1/16" , 1 1/8" and 7/8" bore. which front wheel cylinder bore size do I use? I have a 57 chevy rear and a GM late to early 70s master cylinder.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  26. 1-1/16" is the original size of the wheel cyls on F-1 and F-100 brakes.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    67L36Driver and sport fury like this.
  27. ramblin dan
    Joined: Apr 16, 2018
    Posts: 2,618

    ramblin dan

    here...
     

    Attached Files:

    deathrowdave and sport fury like this.
  28. sport fury
    Joined: Jul 25, 2009
    Posts: 593

    sport fury
    Member

    one of the main reasons I want to replace the 46-48 ford front brakes on my 1930 ford coupe is to go with smaller wheel cylinders. the 46-48 wheel cylinders are very large and work very poorly with dual master cylinders. I am trying to not use wheel cylinders that are bigger than need be. so far the original 53-56 wheel cylinders sound to be the best bet.
     
  29. If you plan to run early Ford wire wheels be sure to check their fit before you get too far.

    Charlie Stephens
     
    mdimages and sport fury like this.

  30. You need to choose the right master to work with the size wheel cylinders you want to run. Also with the Lockheed brakes you need to make sure the shoes are arced to the drums and the adjustment is spot on for them to fully work correctly.
     
    sport fury likes this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.