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Brake shoes - which direction ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Johnnyzoom, Jul 2, 2009.

  1. Johnnyzoom
    Joined: Jun 23, 2006
    Posts: 319

    Johnnyzoom
    Member
    from Florida

    Can someone please answer the question, at least generally- Which direction does the larger brake shoe face!? I've been getting multiple conflicting answers from manuals to websites. Car in question is 64 Comet, drums all around, manual.

    Thanks for any info!
     
  2. hotrodj54
    Joined: Jun 1, 2007
    Posts: 628

    hotrodj54
    Member

    ive allways put the bigger shoe tward the back................john
     
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  3. Tony
    Joined: Dec 3, 2002
    Posts: 7,350

    Tony
    Member

    Yep..
    Primary shoe (short one) in front, secondary (long) at the rear...
    Get's real interesting when they are both the same size....man, i spent hours trying to figure that one out! :D:D
     
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  4. Ice man
    Joined: Mar 12, 2008
    Posts: 984

    Ice man
    Member

    Larger shoe always to the back, the front shoe is like a floater, and made of different material. It forces the other shoe into the drum because of the rotation and you have servo brakes. Ice man
     

  5. 66 Belle
    Joined: Nov 21, 2007
    Posts: 67

    66 Belle
    Member

    You have a primary and a secondary shoe. Primary is long pad and secondary is short pad. Long is to the back and is considered primary because of the auto-adjuster. short is front shoe
     
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  6. Johnnyzoom
    Joined: Jun 23, 2006
    Posts: 319

    Johnnyzoom
    Member
    from Florida

    Not to be a jerk, but see what I mean? Without knowing any better, I thought the longer shoe would go forward, that it had more stopping power . Thanks for clearing this up for me, and at the usual HAMB speed, fast!
     
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  7. time to get a manual,library is good place to start.
     
  8. Hans Buscher
    Joined: Oct 23, 2006
    Posts: 12

    Hans Buscher
    Member

    easy to remember...

    B O B

    Big On Back.
     
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  9. Johnnyzoom
    Joined: Jun 23, 2006
    Posts: 319

    Johnnyzoom
    Member
    from Florida


    Thanks, dude, this is from the original manual:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2009
    mrspeedyt likes this.
  10. Looks to me like the manual is wrong.
    (It happens - I have one that lists 25# or so torque on an FE rear main bearing.)
    Refer to other manuals.
    Preferably a Motors Manual or factory manual.


    Short shoe in front . . . because it's the "self-energizing" shoe.

    The front shoe tries to jam itself into the brake drum - which makes it the stronger shoe braking-wise - when the brakes are applied so it's smaller to match the power of the larger secondary shoe.


    Take note of some drum brakes that have double wheel cylinders, top and bottom, both brake shoes are self-energizing and the same size.

    Makes for a nice brake setup, kind of a poor mans power brakes deal, only catch is they need to be properly adjusted.

    Not hard to do once you learn the drill.
     
    turboroadster likes this.
  11. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    I don't know what manual this picture came from but it sure looks like the drivers side to me. I can't think of any car that has the brake cable come in from the rear. My guess is that it is a typo or someone confused the pictures while editing. If the caption was changed to say the passenger side then that would make sense.

    I've worked in or owned a brake shop for over 25 years. I dare say that I have been involved with more brake jobs than most here.

    [​IMG]

    Compare this exploded view with your picture. You can see that the short shoe (primary or leading shoe) goes to the front as everyone has stated.
     
  12. panic
    Joined: Jan 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,450

    panic

    The self-actuating shoe is the primary, leading or active shoe.
    In some cases it's the same length, but you'll notice the upper corner near the cylinder is beveled back as an anti-grab fix (the secondary, trailing or passive shoe will never have this).
    That book is correct... if it's a RHD car (England, Japan).

    More on double-acting brakes, read my article: http://victorylibrary.com/brit/2LS.htm
     
  13. cabriolethiboy
    Joined: Jun 16, 2002
    Posts: 874

    cabriolethiboy
    Member

    Is it the same with non self energizing early Ford brakes?
     
  14. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    No it is not! Early Fords are the exception to the rule.

    Good point. I saw the XK and XL models but it never dawned on me that it could be an import diagram.
     
  15. Billet
    Joined: Oct 13, 2008
    Posts: 275

    Billet
    Member

    Geez aint this shit fun. The answer is...It depends on what type of brakes you're working on. And after all that Your comet has that Fancy self adjuster on the bottom stick the short one in the front.

    Now HAMB me that Grenade!
    Good Luck-
     
  16. Johnnyzoom
    Joined: Jun 23, 2006
    Posts: 319

    Johnnyzoom
    Member
    from Florida

    Thanks for the help. The diagram is from the 64 shop manual, it doesn't cover imports, it's been very accurate, and I wanted to consult some experts before I digressed from it. Brakes are too important. And yes, this shit is fun.
     
  17. 1oldtimer
    Joined: Aug 21, 2003
    Posts: 8,033

    1oldtimer
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    nope, primary shoe is in fact the short shoe......and it goes toward the front of the car.
     
  18. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,667

    Larry T
    Member

    If you'll look at the emergency brake set up, you'll see this is the right hand side brake assembly. Unless the emergency brake cable comes in from the rear.
    Back to work,
    Larry T
     
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  19. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
    Member

    Bringing up a necro-thread.

    Working on my '41 Ford pickup and found that the PO, (and POS), that owned this had a self-destruct of the emergency brake mechanism and simply didn't replace it. However, he did wire the end of the cable to a fixed object so that the emergency brake on the other side worked. Can you imagine if I had tried to use that if the hydraulics failed?:eek:

    Anybody have the missing parts they'd be willing to sell?

    I thing the wheel cylinders are backwards, too, as this is a picture of the driver's side.

    [​IMG]

    Passenger side, for reference.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,757

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    The primary is always the forward shoe, but not always the longest lining.



    The diagram is mislabeled. It is the right rear brake.
     
  21. johnny bondo
    Joined: Aug 20, 2005
    Posts: 1,547

    johnny bondo
    Member
    from illinois

    on that picture its right. the "hand brake" lever is in the back, so the cable is coming in at the front. so this is the rear passenger side. long pad to the back.
     
  22. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
    Member

    My '41 Ford has wheel cylinders that have two different bores. Isn't the larger bore supposed to face forward?
     
  23. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,757

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    Yes. The '39-'48 Ford LockHeed non-servo brakes have the longer primary lining forward, along with the larger wheel cylinder bore.
     
  24. barry2952
    Joined: Aug 9, 2007
    Posts: 357

    barry2952
    Member

    Wow, that's the opposite of what the instructions that came with the shoes said, but I'm intently listening. Please expand on that, as that's counter to what many here have said.
     
  25. I used to like the cars that came in for brakes, with the 2 short shoes on one side and the 2 long ones on the other side.

    It was always an adventure taking a brake drum off and seeing how creative some "mechanics" got with drum brakes.

    Bob
     
  26. johnny bondo
    Joined: Aug 20, 2005
    Posts: 1,547

    johnny bondo
    Member
    from illinois

    smaller diameter cylinders have more mechanical advantage so it makes sense.
     
  27. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,757

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    Just the opposite- larger diameter wheel cylinders have more mechanical advantage.
     
  28. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,593

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No the primary aka front shoe is always the short one or the one with the least amount of friction material.

    The secondary or rear shoe always has the most friction material.

    Some discount brake reliners use the same size lining front and rear but use different friction material. At least one used to use the same size material but had a groove cut down the middle of the lining but I haven't seen any of those in over 30 years.

    Actually on Bendex brakes the primary pushes the secondary around as the it/they rub against the drum.
     
  29. flyin54
    Joined: May 17, 2011
    Posts: 48

    flyin54
    Member
    from modesto ca

    My auto shop teacher (back in the early seventys) told us to always " drag the big shoe"
     
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  30. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,757

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No, NOT always. Non-servo brakes, like the old Ford LockHeeds, have the longer primary shoe lining towards the front. With duo-servos like Bendix and others, the primary front shoe has the shorter lining.
    Some knowledge of what design brake you are working with is important before you assemble it.
     
    tb33anda3rd likes this.

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