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Technical Brake Problem with New Wilson Welding Brake Kit

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Crew Chief, Sep 21, 2021.

  1. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,666

    manyolcars

    Brakes cause so much trouble that we need a separate sub-forum for them
     
  2. low down A
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 451

    low down A
    Member

    with that picture you posted and you still don't see it ? read my previous post only one other person mr 48 see's it
     
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  3. The shoe being lower? I’m guessI guess it’s just mildly out of place. If it won’t “snap” up to where the other one is then yes that’s a problem
     
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  4. Crew Chief
    Joined: Jan 28, 2020
    Posts: 75

    Crew Chief
    Member

    They came as a kit from Wilson Welding. According to another person that looked at the photos, they are Speedway Motors drums.
     
  5. Crew Chief
    Joined: Jan 28, 2020
    Posts: 75

    Crew Chief
    Member

    Talked to Brian today. Very helpful and will try his suggestion. Will let you all know tomorrow.
     
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  6. David Gersic
    Joined: Feb 15, 2015
    Posts: 2,499

    David Gersic
    Member
    from DeKalb, IL

    I don’t think the shoe to backing plate difference matters here. Just push the back shoe toward the plate. But the shoe to pivot pin fit looks very wrong, like they didn’t cut the half circle end of the shoe deep enough, or it’s for a smaller diameter pin or something. Whatever it is up there, that’s what is causing the shoe to drum interference.

    Go get some new shoes. Compare the end at the pivot pin.
     
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  7. Only because I don’t like misinformation and it being insinuated that good information is wrong, directly out of the books we teach apprentice mechanics with….
    BA74037E-D8B8-42DE-8045-C8E6948B26D0.jpeg

    Sorry I don’t know how to rotate it on my phone.
     
  8. Crew Chief
    Joined: Jan 28, 2020
    Posts: 75

    Crew Chief
    Member

    Ok everyone. Brian Bass recognized the drums as coming from Speedway motors. I looked on Speedway and sure enough there was a photo of them. I guess Bob Wilson was buying those from them for his kits since he didn't manufacture them for his backing plates. Nothing wrong with that but it did send up a read flag due to some other products I have bought from Speedway that the quality control was not good. Brian suggested that I take the drums and have them turned 10 thousandths. Luckily we still have a local old school auto parts store that still does that kind of work. They told me one was way off and the other was slightly off but enough that it needed to be turned. Both were undersized and measured a bit less than 12 inches. I put them back on and it made a big difference. I still don't like the cheap O'Reilly brake shoes and will be replacing them. Brian suggested Wagner or Raybestos. He won't use the cheap ones.

    Thank you all for your suggestions and a big thanks to Brian Bass. He answers his phone unlike some other shops. I met Brian probably 10 years ago at his shop. Nice guy and willing to help out.
     
  9. Crew Chief
    Joined: Jan 28, 2020
    Posts: 75

    Crew Chief
    Member

    Both of mine are dark.
     
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  10. Crew Chief
    Joined: Jan 28, 2020
    Posts: 75

    Crew Chief
    Member

    Good idea. With the manufacturing process not being what it used to be, I am sure there is enough variation that it does cause a problem. I did my own brake jobs in from the late 60s through the early 80s and never had this much fit problems.
     
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  11. Dang I wouldn't even know where to go to get drums turned here in Fort Worth. Glad Brian got you handled!
     
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  12. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 7,918

    krylon32
    Alliance Vendor
    from Nebraska

    Glad turning the drums helped. I have sold MT Lincoln brakes for many years and from time to time MT will be out of drums so my customers have ordered Speedway drums. Several of them have had problems with the Speedway drums being out of round and also had a problem with balance. Also I had one customer that the Speedway drums were so hard they destroyed the brake shoes in a few thousand miles. I know the Speedway drums are cheaper than MT but MT's are US made and to date I've had no problems with them. Brian will do an excellent job with the Wilson Welding products, I wish him good fortune.
     
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  13. Tman
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 36,057

    Tman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The moral of the story is if you have a problem and are using Speedway Parts start there first.
     
    big duece, LSGUN, X38 and 4 others like this.
  14. Crew Chief
    Joined: Jan 28, 2020
    Posts: 75

    Crew Chief
    Member

    O'Reillys offer the service but unless you have someone at the store that knows what they are doing, I would stay away from them. I tried getting the front rotors turned on my wife's Explorer. First time to ever get them turned. My go to guys were closed so I went to O'Reillys in Gatesville, TX and wasted 20 minutes with those people. They brought out their calipers then asked me to wait for the manager to make the decision whether to turn them or not. They were saying that the rotors were marginal. They were quoting me a price for a new set. I finally walked out and the next morning took them to my go to guys at the old school parts store. They never questioned whether the rotors were marginal. $30 bucks and out the door a couple of hours later. Look around Ft. Worth, there may be an old repair shop that still does that kind of work.
     
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  15. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 8,419

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Times have changed. I used to work at a station in Phoenix in the early 80’s, a fellow would come by in a van and turn our drums and rotors in the back of the van.
    A few months back I called around and finally found a shop to do the rotors on my ‘03 Chevy PU. 75 bucks.
    I looked and bought AC Delco replacements from Summit for about the same price.
     
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  16. Jrs50
    Joined: Jun 4, 2019
    Posts: 232

    Jrs50
    Member

    When I got my 1980 Chevy truck from my stepdad couple of years ago, I did the brakes on it. I found a repair shop in Hemphill, Tx that still turns rotors. Quite frankly, I was surprised to find him but glad I did. Seems like he charged 20 bucks for both. I happily paid that!
     
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  17. Rice n Beans Garage
    Joined: Dec 17, 2006
    Posts: 1,573

    Rice n Beans Garage
    Member

    In the 80s I worked at ABC Mobile Brake warehouse in Canoga Park CA. In those days the drums and rotors were manufactured in the USA, Bendix, Raybestos etc. Rarely we would get one that was out of round. The new off shore drums and rotors are made with crap materials and standards. On my stuff, 29 Tudor, JFZ calipers and 9” rear, I go Wilwood for the front and any USA manufactured from Napa on the rear, I get my shoes reclined at a local brake shop with Bendix EDF lining.
     
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  18. Is Napa still in the business of turning ? I would trust them if I didn't know of a few turners here in Dallas.
     
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  19. David Gersic
    Joined: Feb 15, 2015
    Posts: 2,499

    David Gersic
    Member
    from DeKalb, IL

    Locally, no. The NAPA here sold off all of its machine shop equipment. I found a guy in the local neighborhood known as “little Mexico” that bought the brake lathe and tooling. A few hand gestures and $25 got my rotors turned.

    There’s not much call for turning drums and rotors now. The new stuff is so small and cheap that it’s not worth the effort or price to do it.
     
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  20. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 11,001

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Trailer supply and repair shops have become a source for me. I arc shoes with body file and some times a wood rasp.
     
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  21. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,800

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm old in the business, did my apprenticeship in 1957-1961. Our manual (for apprentices and masters alike) was from S.A.E. (Society of Automotive Engineers)
    Sometime in the '70s, a new Overlord was formed, A.S.E. (Automotive Service Excellence) By that time, I was a Certified Porsche/BMW tech, so was not affected...Until BMW turned their former factory certification over to A.S.E.
    It was a downhill roll...
    As with most things, 'new' wasn't necessarily 'excellent'. This varied thickness of brake lining looked to me like a misprint. Certainly not in SAE specifications. BUT:
    Now everything's O.K. Watch the news.....
     
    57 Fargo likes this.
  22. You need to arc the brake shoes and turn the drums as needed. In the old days the parts stores would arc the shoes to make sure they were true and round to match the drums.
     
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  23. Mike, I don’t always agree with everything that’s in there either but I’ve seen thicker secondary shoes, not all are like that but some.
     
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  24. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,800

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've also seen a pair, looked erroneous to me. But this was lately, never back in 'the day'...
    I worked for a major frame & wheel company in Concord, CA. in '68; we relined our own shoes, (customers' cores)
    I never saw or heard of mixed lining thickness (or hardness) in that time period.
    Something 'modern'? Perhaps.
    Thanks for the reply, and the illustration. No sarcasm was intended, I'm elated to see the inclusion...
     
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  25. didn’t think you were being sarcastic, could very well be a more modern thing for sure.
     
    Crew Chief likes this.

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