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Brake Line dos and don'ts

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by HotRodTruck, Jan 28, 2012.


  1. I've been doing that but no luck! After the snow melts I'll go back out and try it once more!
     
  2. enjenjo
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 2,548

    enjenjo
    Member
    from swanton oh

    I have done a lot of flares installing brakes. Here are my tips. I cut the tubing with a saw, most tube cutters harden the end of the tubing making it harder to flare. I have a jig that holds the tubing for a square cut. File the end of the tubing, and debur inside and out. I have short pieces of tuning made with a bend starting point marked, and use them to lay out the bends. I also mark a line showing the direction of the bend so you don't bend it the wrong way. I keep a spare steel inverted flare adapter in the flaring tool box, and tighten each end of the line into it to center the flare up before installing into the brass adapters on the car, it makes for fewer leaks. Rub a little parafin into the threads on the flare fittings, keeps the water out so they don't rust in place. NAPA carrys the Cunifer line in 25' rolls at a decent price, one roll will do most cars. It polishes up nice too. I do not use Ecoated line, it rusts too fast here in Ohio if you drive year round. My flaring tool is a 70 year old Imperial Eastman I inherited from my Grand dad.
     
  3. 427v8
    Joined: Dec 17, 2006
    Posts: 52

    427v8
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Tip #1 Don't ever use double flares.
    Tip #2 double flares are a one time use. If you take them apart you should replace them.
    Tip #3 Use 37' AN flares
    Tip #4 37 degree flares are reusable
    Tip #5 37 degree flares are single flares and so much easier to make. Even in stainless.
    Tip #5 Don't use double flares!
     
  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,652

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Um, what?
     
  5. Lotek_Racing
    Joined: Sep 6, 2006
    Posts: 690

    Lotek_Racing
    Member

    If you listen to this:

    1: Don't get your car inspected.

    2: Don't plan to have any insurance coverage if something should happen to you.

    3: I hope the original post was sarcasm.
     
  6. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member


    I just borrowed one of these, they go for about $350.
    I need to finish my lines on the Coupe.
    It should help immensly with the job.
     
  7. BratRod
    Joined: Oct 10, 2007
    Posts: 51

    BratRod
    Member

    I second this! Works well and is simple.
     
  8. 54 Chevy
    Joined: Sep 4, 2010
    Posts: 361

    54 Chevy
    Member

    This is partially true if you are using stainless. You should only use 37 degree flares on stainless. But if you are using steel lines then 45 degree double flares are preferred. Never use single flares with none an fittings.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  9. 54 Chevy
    Joined: Sep 4, 2010
    Posts: 361

    54 Chevy
    Member

    also double flares are reuseable!
     
  10. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,652

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I hope so. I have been re-using them for over 30 years.:eek:
     
  11. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    I just finished my brake lines, using that hydraulic flaring tool. Oh man, it is nice. Made life way easier and makes for a cleaner job not having to coil up excess line, etc.

    Only had one very small line leak at the driver rear wheel cylander. I gave it "just a little more with the wrench" and it sealed right up.
     
  12. Da Tinman
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,226

    Da Tinman
    Member

    I made one a lot cheaper than that, and then used it to bleed the entire braking system from dry to finished (by myself) in 5 minutes flat.

    You'll have to wait till tech week to find out how though!
     
  13. Smokey2
    Joined: Jan 11, 2011
    Posts: 919

    Smokey2
    Member

    Thanks Guys (and Dolls ?), Good contributions, and greatly appreciated...........
    Makes bein' a Hamber worth it !

    ___________________________________________________________
    As U No,
    Still Smoked-up , Up, Up, and Away ................... :)

    The '53 tudor is commin' along fine.
    The '54 Heart Top is at TrioxinKustoms NOW,
    Jag front suspension and Blazer Rear. And, and,
    naturally, Chopped !
     
  14. Good to know those hydraulic ones are good as I will be using one of those on my car and have never had a chance to use one.
     
  15. Never listen to that "mechanic"guy that says that you dont have to bleed the 4 calipers if your only taking 2 off.
    Also dont let that same "mechanic"near your car when he says he can flare the tube with a phillips screw driver.
     
  16. nh-lead-man
    Joined: Jul 24, 2006
    Posts: 181

    nh-lead-man
    Member

    Never ever ever use COPPER tubing unless you want to Kill yourself or some one elses family on the road!!!
     
  17. Lotek_Racing
    Joined: Sep 6, 2006
    Posts: 690

    Lotek_Racing
    Member

    Hmmm....

    What about all the British cars running around with copper brake tubing from the factory?

    There is a proper, copper alloy brake pipe available but it usually won't an inspection in North America unless the inspector really knows his stuff.

    Also, Duesenbergs have copper brake pipe, factory.

    Shawn
     
  18. bobj49f2
    Joined: Jun 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,844

    bobj49f2
    Member

    Never us plastic tubing either. My dad had a guy come into his repair shop for some kind of repair for the first time, when my dad got the car up on the lift he saw the entire system was plumbed with plastic tubing. My dad asked the guy about the tubing. The guy was a salesman for a company that sold supplies for air systems and he use what they had in their stock. My dad ended up talking him into having the system replumbed with the proper lines and fittings.
     
  19. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,175

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    That one sounds like an "old mechanics" tale. Sounds a little far fetched to me, is there even a type of plastic tubing that would not burst and leak right away ?
     
  20. bobj49f2
    Joined: Jun 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,844

    bobj49f2
    Member

    Hey, it's what my dad told me. I met the guy, he was a reall smooth operator. He tried to weasle his way through everything. He ended up embezzling from the company he worked for and turned up missing. Take it for what it's worth.
     
  21. Lotek_Racing
    Joined: Sep 6, 2006
    Posts: 690

    Lotek_Racing
    Member

    http://www.speedwaymotors.com/US-Brake-Nylon-Brake-Line-Kit,26344.html

    Speedway sells it for racecar use only.

    I doubt that I would trust it, no matter what they say.

    Shawn
     
  22. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,693

    Weasel
    Member

    DO NOT USE DOT 5 SILICONE BRAKE FLUID unless your brakes were specifically designed for it. It eats rubber seals and can cause total brake failure without any warning. Read the warning on the bottle and if you can't read get someone who can to read it to you.;) It has been dropped by all car manufacturers after many reported problems. If used in Hondas it voids the warranty!

    This from the web:

    "DOT 5 silicone is not to be confused with DOT 5.1 DOT 5 will not eat paint but DOT 5.1, like DOT 3 and DOT 4, is a polyethylene glycol-based fluid (contrasted with DOT 5 which is silicone-based) and will eat paint as do all polyethylene glycol based fluids.

    Polyethylene glycol fluids are hygroscopic and will absorb water from the atmosphere. This degrades the fluid's performance, and if allowed to accumulate over a period of time, can drastically reduce its dry boiling point.DOT 5 is one of several designations of automotive brake fluid, denoting a particular mixture of chemicals imparting specified ranges of boiling point.


    DOT 5 is a silicone-based brake fluid.
    It is NOT compatible with any polyethylene glycol based fluids. Mixing DOT 5 with other types of brake fluids will start a chemical reaction that will cause solids to precipitate out of the mixture and inhibit proper brake system function.

    Unlike polyethylene glycol based fluids, it is not hygroscopic, however this means that instead of being dissolved, any water in the system will eventually find its way to the lowest point in the brake line, corroding it, and potentially boiling and causing brake failure. Since it does not attract moisture, there is no way this will occur unless you are careless in cleaning out of the old fluid. Its major advantage over other forms of brake fluid is silicone will exhibit a more stable viscosity index in extreme temperatures, which is why the US Army likes silicone fluids. It is widely used in the antique automobile arena as well as it will not damage paint. From a lubrication standpoint, there is no appreciable difference.


    Check with the manufacturer of your vehicle to see if this voids your warranty


    If you do decide to make this switch, be careful.
    You will have to completely flush you entire brake system of the DOT 3/4 before filling with DOT 5. Flushing with mineral spirits is enough to cause a complete system failure in a short time. In fact the introduction of any petroleum based products such as motor oil, power steering fluid, mineral oil (baby oil) even in small quantities will cause failure. The only way to properly flush this is with a brake cleaner that does not leave a residue.

    In order to flush the system properly, every component must be removed and cleaned individually, then lubricated with the new DOT 5 and reassembled.
    You will also need to check with the manufacturer of your vehicle to see if this voids your warranty. This is the perfect time to see if any parts are worn and replace them accordingly. If done properly and no moisture is introduced into the system, you will not have to replace the internal components of your system again."

    I replaced the entire brake system on a car I had bought and which I later found out had DOT5 Silicone fluid - after I nearly took out the NSRA Safety Inspection tent at the NSRA Appreciation Day Show back in the 1990s, when I had total brake failure without ANY warning. Thank God I was only doing 5 mph in a crowded show lot at the time and had a functioning emergency brake. I shudder to think what the civil liabilities would have been had anyone been hurt. I will NEVER use that stuff again but I am expecting the usual 'I have used it for years and never had a problem' crowd to be chiming in soon....:rolleyes:
     
  23. chrisntx
    Joined: Jan 20, 2006
    Posts: 1,798

    chrisntx
    Member
    from Texas .

    I have been using Dot5 from Advance Auto and other stores for about 20 years in my Fords, 1939 to 1960 and my 66 Chrysler. One reason I like it is because it does NOT eat rubber seals. It also does NOT absorb any moisture from the air. The parts man told me it would gel if mixed with Dot3 so I poured both into a cup and watched it for weeks. Nothing happened
     
  24. Weasel
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 6,693

    Weasel
    Member

    ^^^see the last sentence in my post....

    Again from the web:

    As a former materials engineering supervisor at a major automotive brake system supplier, I feel both qualified and obligated to inject some material science facts into the murky debate about DOT 5 verses DOT 3-4 brake fluids. The important technical issues governing the use of a particular specification brake fluid are as follows:

    1. Fluid compatibility with the brake system rubber, plastic and metal components.
    2. Water absorption and corrosion.
    3. Fluid boiling point and other physical characteristics.
    4. Brake system contamination and sludging.

    Brake system materials must be compatible with the system fluid. Compatibility is determined by chemistry, and no amount of advertising, wishful thinking or rationalizing can change the science of chemical compatibility. Both DOT 3-4 and DOT 5 fluids are compatible with most brake system materials except in the case some silicone rubber external components such as caliper piston boots, which are attacked by silicon fluids and greases.

    DOT 5 in its pure state offers a higher boiling point (500F) however if water got into the system, and a big globule found its way into a caliper, the water would start to boil at 212F causing a vapor lock condition
     
  25. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    And here it is. Check this website out, theres some good info here.
    http://www.fedhillusa.com/
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  26. I made a brake bleeder out of an old breast pump, it worked but not great....lol
     
  27. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I am REALLY looking forward to this!
     
  28. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,531

    aaggie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I struggled with making perfect double flares and when I finally read the directions about putting a drop of oil on after the first flare it works great. The effort to make the second flare went way down and the little insert goes in straight every time.

    I squirt some brake cleaner to wash off the oil and I always blow air through a tube before putting it on the car.
     
  29. Been using copper tubing epecially made for brakeline for more than 30 years never had it crack by the flare, but maybe we have better copper in scandinavia I don't know!
    I have changed ONE copper line in my car building life and that was on my own Chevy, not because it leaked, but because it got flat after beeing caught between my rear axle and the frame, because the rubber bump fell of!! It happenes when you have a low car and like to race it alot! Again never problems with leakage!!!

    Klaus
     
  30. langy
    Joined: Apr 27, 2006
    Posts: 5,735

    langy
    Member Emeritus

    I don't think that will be Copper, It should be Copper/Nickel (Kunifer) which is a very different animal.
     

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