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Bracket Racing vrs Heads Up Racing

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by The Shocker, Jan 18, 2010.

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  1. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,780

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I like bracket racing. I run Super Pro with an inline six. Most of my competitors have 500 - 600 cubic inch V8 BBC cars. What a kick it is to beat them. If I had to run them heads up, well, you know where I'd be - on the trailer after the first round. Handicap racing gives me a chance to win with my screwball combination.

    My track also has Heads-up racing once a month. Fills the place. The track owner is smart enough to realize that by having it only once a month the racers can come loaded for bear, blow up a bunch of stuff, kiss the wall, pull huge crowd-pleasing, axle-bending wheelies, and have a month to get it all fixed. I can't afford that, but I don't argue that its more fun to watch than a train wreck.

    To each his own, I guess.
     
  2. Ten pages? That's quite a bit of response, I'd say.
    There's a lot here to address, but I'll just keep it brief.
    Some off y'all are definitely trying to reinvent the wheel alright.

    Drag Racing has evolved for the last 50 years to what we have now; which is something for just about everybody and any kind of car.

    Heads up or staggered start flat out racing has gone way ,way past the financial capabilities of the average part time enthusiast.
    You would need qualified tech people and equipment, certified scales, fuel checking personnel and so on. I 'm sure most don't want to start paying extra for all of that, like with NHRA ; $170.00 for divisionals, $270.00 for the Nat's.

    ET racing (as I prefer to call it) has enabled many to be able to win an occasional trophy or some cash, even racing against those with money to burn. If you've ever done that you know what a good feeling that is.
    From there you can move up to legal Class racing where you can win some of these:


    [​IMG]

    or maybe set a National Record or two:



    [​IMG]


    The point is , there's many different venues for whatever is your pleasure.
    Ryan's deal is just a place where you can burn rubber, shoot the breeze ,and see some really cool old iron. I don't see any point in trying to change it.
    The only thing I would say, and I don't even know if they do this, but after the first hits, you could place the cars in certain lanes,going by their ET. That way ,all the time trial and grudge runs would be a lot more closely matched for the spectators sake.

    We run our deal differently , and I'll address that in a later post.
     
  3. The Shocker
    Joined: Dec 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,538

    The Shocker
    Member

    Looking at your walls ,it appears you have been down a dragstrip with lots of success in your career.I would certainly like to hear about how you run "your deal" .Is is it a form of Bracket or Class racing ?:)
     
  4. american opel
    Joined: Dec 14, 2006
    Posts: 1,222

    american opel
    Member
    from ohio

    havent read this thread for a couple days.first of all i hate the buy back end of it.in my opp.if you lose you lose!!!!!!i dont race for aliving i live to race.im not that good at it but i usually go acouple of rounds.so if it wasnt for the buybacks i would be closer to a final and a chance for a throphy.i dont care about winning money i just want another $2.00 throphy to stick on the wall.i got out of racing for awhile because i was getting beat buy someone with all the money and electronics,or the guy with the stock car that would run the some et.everytime.after every run i would be changing something to try and get another tenth out of my car.so now i have a car that i run for fun again and having a blast!!im not as worred about pulling up next to some new jap/crap car.its the most fun i have had in forever!!i like index racing but for some reason im always 3 tenths too fast or too slow.so to try and win i have to run in the slower class and let off at the end{which fn sucks}to me it sandbagging and i dont want to do it again but i also want to win.
     
  5. ETwagon
    Joined: Apr 6, 2007
    Posts: 97

    ETwagon
    Member
    from Arizona

    Drag strips have to turn a profit to remain open, that's life.
    Rising Insurance costs, property taxes, workers comp, energy costs, lower car counts and so on. Things change from "the good 'ol days", that's also life.
    Besides, buybacks are not mandatory.
     
  6. spikeshotrods
    Joined: Dec 25, 2006
    Posts: 373

    spikeshotrods
    Member

    Here's the flyer for our next event, at "Our Deal" we've been fine tuning our program and have found that this format seems to keep both spectators and racers coming back, we run class racing with our Stock - Super combo - A/FX shootout - and try to put together a few match races and exhibition cars (T/F Dragsters-Funny Cars etc). This seems to keep the spectators entertained - For the Racers we have a time only lane that you can run your buddy if you'd like and "Bracket Racing" all of the fore mentioned we get a lot of participation. We also offer "Heads- Up" Flag drop 1/8 mile drags, the same guy won for 4 straight events with a blown SBC T-bucket and it seemed nobody wanted to step up and build anything to knock him off his throne, so he got bored and didn't run the last 2 events. What I'm trying to point out is that out of a field of 150 or more cars at our race we can only get about 4 to 6 cars to participate in the "Heads-Up" flag drop drag racing.

    As for me I used to bracket race quite a bit about 15 years ago (no electronics) had a lot of fun, won a few lost more, got back in back into it recently and have actually won a couple of brackets (didn't mess with the car after the last time trial and tried to do the same thing every round), 3' tall trophy's and some $cash$ :D Man I felt like an old fighter coming out of retirement, and the bragging rights those nights after the race drinking beer with my buddies in the garage were classic.


    [​IMG]
     

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
  7. Junior Stock
    Joined: Aug 24, 2004
    Posts: 1,822

    Junior Stock

    Tulsa use to run a seperate conselation race for 1st and 2nd round losers.This was back before buy back's became the norm for most tracks.

    Tim
     
  8. ol gasser
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 333

    ol gasser
    Member
    from here

    Lol bracket racing where you have to hit your brake if you are going to fast.Yeah that is draag racing.Think snake ever hit his brake.We fought back in the 70s to kill bracket racing and a lot quit because of bracket racing.
     
  9. masracingtd1167
    Joined: Oct 20, 2009
    Posts: 100

    masracingtd1167
    Member
    from ct

    I don't see why some of you guy's are so against bracket racing .It might not be a perfect fit for nostalgia racing so why not modify it a little like making every one dial a tenth faster than there quickest time trial and not let them change it through elimination's . As far as regular brackrt racing goes most local tracks could not survive without it.
     

  10. OG, I'm curious whether you race at all anymore. If not, maybe you'd like to make a comeback?
    There is no more Modified Eliminator, but Competition/ E might be to your liking then. I can get you set up with Rick Watters Enterprises in town here. How about a nice SBC or Chrysler that will make you competitive . Those run about 40 grand and up. 'Course you'll a trans and converter (5G's ) and a state of the art chassis . That shouldn't be a problem for someone like you, who doesn't like stepping on the brakes. Let me know.

    BTW, how'd that ~ killing Bracket racing ~ work out for you?
     
  11. holeshot
    Joined: Sep 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,519

    holeshot
    BANNED
    from Waxahachie

    WELL SHOCK...I believe if your having an event( mostly for fun ) then rent the strip and have all the grudge matches you want. but when you charge for addmision, charge for cars competing, and charge for prise money. well brother you should run the race like anyother dragstrip would! hell if we'r just there for fun, then rent a local park and have a picnic. people who dragrace won't to race to win, but won't a FAIR CHANCE, that's all...POP.
     
  12. Junior Stock
    Joined: Aug 24, 2004
    Posts: 1,822

    Junior Stock

    No, but Ashley Force did:)
    Started in Super Comp.
    What I don't understand is the bracket racers will support a heads up race but the heads up guy's won't support a bracket race.

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
  13. LZ
    Joined: Sep 9, 2007
    Posts: 618

    LZ
    Member

    OK well having read this for awhile here goes......


    1. My opinion only but I dont like or understand electronics.:confused:. For example just the other day at my friends shop, 2 Racers came in and started to talk. Throttle stops and delay boxes etc. One man was discussing that its hard when no one goes with him and its hard to see his opponents dial to set his box. The other responds that he was having issues on accuracy with the Throttle stop and found that it was voltage sensitive etc etc..:confused: I dont get it. Your not shifting, the Car slows down and speeds up, Or what if your diving and trying to keep your car just ahead of your opponent. I dont get it. Mind you I am trying to keep this post short.
    2. I was actually building a Mustang to run NHRA Super Gas when it first came out. Family came along and slowed the project. Probably was a good thing. I had not made a race in a few years and did not keep up with its progress that much on the Super Classes. Work got very very busy. So Finally things calm down. We Head to E town one year so we can enjoy the Race and I can talk to ATI at a Seminar. I almost threw up when I saw my first Throttle stop race. And thus ended probably my last chance wanting to race NHRA. The Mustang got sold a couple years later so I could build -buy a Jr Dragster. So life moves on whatever.
    3. Bracket Racing is an absolute must. My Son now has a Mustang that he Brackets with. It is affordable and he still has a blast.:cool: Its a No Box car..:rolleyes:
    4. Matched Index racing is great as the cars are leaving heads up. But if it involves Electronics then read above IMO
    5. We have a Local Car club race on Wednesday nights. Its Bracket racing but even if you loose first round it does not matter because you are racing for club points. So you get to race again. Usually 4 rounds not counting time trials... Fun deal so that even if you loose you still get to try again.:D
    6. Buy backs.. I think that they are handled wrong again IMO. If you buy back you should be a separate consolation race. Its not fair to loose the next round to the guy you beat earlier.:mad: We have been on the receiving end of this also. beat a guy. He buys back ,and we meet him 2 rounds later... We beat him again and it seemed like hollow win.
    7. There is ways to race heads up and not have to worry about expensive tech or rules. We have a group here that are called MOM's. They have an interesting deal to race Heads Up. Check it out. http://www.momsracing.com/
    8. There is splinter groups all over the country that match Index race so you can control what you spend and still enjoy a Pro tree. Example. http://www.nostalgiaprocomp.com/Home/tabid/69/Default.aspx

    I Rambled and got a bit off topic Sorry.:eek: There is room for Bracket, Index, Quick 8-16, etc, I just hope that the AHRA can get its program off the ground. If we can get Nostalgia and Modern races organized affordable. Then you will have a great show to attend with a great cross section of Cars - personalities..

    Sorry for the long winded post.
    .
     
  14. The Shocker
    Joined: Dec 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,538

    The Shocker
    Member

    Well guys ,i understand that the local track has to make $$$ to get by on regular racing ,and thats cool .I am not talking about the Honda's and Kia's racing on Friday nights here though .I am talking about Nostalgia races that happen at these tracks once or twice a year.What they do at these tracks on normal Test and Tune nights is not the topic.The topic is about what we are doing at the special annual Nostalgia events and how to make it more appealing for the people in the stands and more even for those of us racing without Bracket racing...:)
     
  15. I've been following the thread and even gave my comment before but why not just go and have fun. You're talking about a race that happens ONC or TWICE a year, why rock the boat for something that only happens one a year ?
     
  16. Littleman
    Joined: Aug 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,619

    Littleman
    Alliance Member
    from OHIO, USA

    I agree w/ Swade41..........not to mention the people footin the bill runs the show..when you find yourself footin the bill then you can do anything you like..but not too many people are willing to stick out their neck to rent the Strip and dedicate a whole lot of time to making a event happen..I can only image it's a whole lot of work, not to mention all the complaints....so just be thankful for the venues that are out their...When I go....I wait for the bulb to drop and I try to break the son of a bitch each time flying threw the back door..............Littleman
     
  17. The Shocker
    Joined: Dec 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,538

    The Shocker
    Member

    Not trying to rock the boat.I was just trying to help these guys that have the slower cars and want to Bracket race have sum fun in another way.As far as im concerned im happy with the way things are at these events for the most part.I guess if these slower guys dont like things the way they are they can always quit.Its no skin off my back either way.I am happy running in the mid 11's and if they are 2, 3, or 4 seconds behind me in eleminations ,im cool with it ...;)
     
  18. paco
    Joined: Oct 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,141

    paco
    Member
    from Atlanta

    Outlaw 10.5 heads up racing rules .... so I'm in on ANY type of heads up racing.

    Paco
     

  19. Thanks for the effort ,bud. I know what it's like, trying to be brief.
    I looked at those links , and,correct me if I'm wrong , but there are still breakouts in effect; that is, go too fast and lose. (Incidentally , there are plenty of ways to take advantage of those situations).
    Anyway, that seems to be the problem several of the old timers here can't abide.
    I'm in my sixth decade in racing on this rock, and I look forward to my seventh, not sitting around in a lawn chair at some cruise night, talking about what I did in my third or fourth.
    Get out there and race those hot rods . That's what they're for. If you don't care to bracket race, run your buddy, 2 out of 3, if you want.
    We'll be glad to accommodate you.

    Mark and Spike
     
  20. BLAINE 816
    Joined: Jan 6, 2007
    Posts: 243

    BLAINE 816
    Member

    Git a grip men, with out bracket racing most drag strips would have been gone long ago. We are lucky that track operators have found a way to stay in business with mounting costs and and complaints. They need our support. Go often and buy a hot dog.
     
  21. LZ
    Joined: Sep 9, 2007
    Posts: 618

    LZ
    Member

    Hey Mark:

    Yes in response to your note that there is still a breakout but unlike regular bracket racing, you get 2 tenths and MPH buffer. Its not perfect but everyone seems tight. There is no bagging. I dont belong to the group but have watched them over the years. When they first started I was thinking Ya right. But they have been going like 20 years now and its a fun deal to watch. Even if the cars miss by a couple tenths in time trials. Its still heads up and a good light can make you a winner.
    You see a big variance of cars and set ups.
    I think what helps a ton is that there is no money involved.
    Just door prizes like steaks, tools and such. When you take away the money then you are left with more people that just love to do this and it makes for a pleasant atmosphere to just leg the car.

    I went to a big Dollar Bracket Race in Alabama several years ago(Huntsville)
    It was cool for like an hour. 100's of RED with a BBC, Glides and tons of Electronics..:(
    I tried several times to talk to people and it was awful how rude they were.
    People just there for the Money and no real love for the sport.
    Boring and even being a die hard drag person after a few hours it was time to leave.

    Hope your next decade of racing is just as good as past.
    You got it right Pal. Just get out there wale on the car and have some fun.
    I will keep trying to get mine out and helping other people as it is rewarding also.
    Hope for a great summer 2010
    Luke
     
  22. Com'on not at the HAMB's Nobody gives a rats ass who wins. Not me at least.

    Just being there with all the young weired people, the old bald and bearded guys, the people with all the tatoos, the good looking women, and did I say the wierd people? That is waay too much fun to screw up with serious racing.
     
  23. OahuEli
    Joined: Dec 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,095

    OahuEli
    Member
    from Hawaii

    Heads up is the only way. Time trials like they have on "Pinks All Out" will set the field.
    (And people watching/listening for sandbaggers)
    To me, just seeing the other guys fender recede from my peripheral vision seems way more fun than beating some econobox through the lights.
     
  24. american opel
    Joined: Dec 14, 2006
    Posts: 1,222

    american opel
    Member
    from ohio

    as lz said if theres alot of money invalved there will be those people that show up at the last minute never do a time run and win the hole race because they have the money and equipment to do it.at thompson last year i went 5 rounds in a gambelers race and lost to a guy running a two step.{he won}then on sunday i went two rounds maybe three and no one would line up next to him.i said screw it and lined up next to him just to get it ever with{i knew he would win with about.02 off his dial in}.he won the race again.this was sup.to be a nastalgia race and yes his car was pre 72.but in my opp.two steps or throttel stops shouldnt be aloud.i had fun and made over twenty passes that weekend.just felt like i got robbed alittle.
     
  25. Desert1957
    Joined: Aug 15, 2007
    Posts: 50

    Desert1957
    Member
    from Pa/Md

    Guys,

    My other passion is my 67 Chevy ll , and this is what I was lucky enough to find in my area, A "Stick Shift" Drag Racing group , who doesn't allow Electronics , Imports or Dragsters. Its not a Rod group but ALL the cars in our little association are getting so old its becoming kinda of a Nostalgia thing.
    We are loved where ever we are booked in , Real Sounds, Gear Jamming , Wheel Standing cars from the 50's and 60's. Still bracket racing , but more competition due to missed shifts and parts breakage

    If you live in my area , come check it out....

    Desert

    PS: here is a link to our group www.prostickracing.com
     
  26. Fast55097
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 114

    Fast55097
    Member
    from S.A. TX

     
  27. Fast55097
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 114

    Fast55097
    Member
    from S.A. TX

    It is better to propose a solution than go on about a problem. I haven't heard many comments on my proposed heads up race. I'll post it again.

    What if we run heads up classes that are determined by qualifying. All cars make two time trials. then, order the cars by fastest e.t. only. stratify them into classes of the desired car count. Run the classes heads up. we could impose a percentage breakout rule to discourage sand baggers. cant run quicker than 5% (or some other aggreed upon number) quicker than your own fastest qualifying pass.

    I feel this would solve some of the cost to compete factor in putting on a good heads up race.

    What do you guys think? <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
    __________________
     
  28. LZ
    Joined: Sep 9, 2007
    Posts: 618

    LZ
    Member

    Mornin Fast55:
    Check this link out.

    http://www.momsracing.com/

    As I mentioned earlier they race similar to what you are speaking too.
    Its a fun deal to watch(when theirs time to watch :p)
    Keep the Big Money out of it and you get a more fun atmosphere.
    Good luck
    Luke
     
  29. ardyboy
    Joined: Mar 5, 2008
    Posts: 664

    ardyboy

    Blaine 816--couldn't agree more
    SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL DRAGSTRIP--before it's too late
     
  30. The Shocker
    Joined: Dec 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,538

    The Shocker
    Member

    Its okay ,not the first time i have been beat.It was sum dude with a bad ass satin green 55 tudor that beat me.The worst thing is i redlighted trying to get any advantage i could on him.He beat me bad off the line anyway ,but i caught him at the 1/8 mile and actually won in the 1/4.I ran 11.56 on that pass and he ran 11.60 ,but it didnt matter cuz i redlighted.It was the most awesome race i have ever been in though .The guy driving and i kept looking at each other out the side window on a mid 11 pass ,how freaking cool is that ???
     
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