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Bouncey straight axle front end...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by awsomeears, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. awsomeears
    Joined: Feb 5, 2011
    Posts: 159

    awsomeears
    Member

    Updated my 1st post !!!


    Bouncy...

    It just feels as if my front end doesn't give any when I hit bumps, a little more adsorption would go a long way

    Thanks everyone
     
  2. SimonSez
    Joined: Jul 1, 2001
    Posts: 1,631

    SimonSez
    Member

    I would try removing a leaf but there isn't a lot to play with when you only have 3 leaves in the spring pack.

    If removing one of the short leaves is too much, look for some thinner leafs out of a spring pack that has more leaves and use them instead of the two short ones that are in there now.
     
  3. awsomeears
    Joined: Feb 5, 2011
    Posts: 159

    awsomeears
    Member

    I was thinking about that, but man every other Nova I have seen has more then my setup, it has me thinking :D

    Now I do know speedway sells just the leaf spring from there kit and there description is as follows :

    http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Nova-Gasser-Style-Front-Leaf-Spring,68166.html

    These are the same springs used on our '62-'67 Nova Gasser front end kits. They feature a shorter length than our standard Gasser leaf spring.

    • 26" Eye to Eye
    • Six leaves including main leaf
    • Shorter length than our standard Gasser spring
     
  4. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 9,946

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Please don't tell me the up-and-down oscillation was cured by a So-Cal steering dampener.
    Seems like I saw that back there somewhere...
     

  5. The thickness of the individual leaves will be a huge factor in spring rate pack.
    A 1-1/2" thick pack with 3 leaves will be much stiffer than a 1-1/2 pack with 6 leaves. Have you played with the spring rate calculators that I linked for you?

    Hamber "Andy" has a great tech on making a load cell so you can easily and cheaply get the exact weight of the car. Some math and you can get the sprung and unsprung weights too.
     
  6. brokenspoke
    Joined: Jul 26, 2005
    Posts: 2,877

    brokenspoke
    Member

    Correct me if I'm wrong.....I always thought the stationary end of the spring should be on the side of the axle the steering box is located......It appears in the picture your shackle is located on the steering box side.....
     
  7. Actually there is a lot of controversy over which end of the spring should be stationary. I like the stationary end to be at the rear like GM does it. It is an old off roader trick on jeeps to swap the ends and make the stationary end to the rear to make them more stable at speed. But that would have little or nothing to do with bounce and joince.

    I am looking at the pics and wondering who made up the wierd top shock mount. Look at the direction of the top eye, it is non functional in that direction inless the shock angle is out away from the fram instead of parellel to the frame as it is set up. It may have nothing to do with your bounce but it could cause shock bind at some point.
     
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,315

    squirrel
    Member

    It looks like the springs are just way too stiff. The tie wrap on the shock is from when you went for a drive, right? and it moved up to where it is now? that means the springs are only deflecting an inch from having no weight on them at all, to having the car's weight on it and driving around.

    For a quick test, I'd try taking out the middle leaf, and see how the car sits. If it does drop down a ways, then take it for a drive and see how it feels.

    anyone else agree?
     
  9. DICK SPADARO
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,887

    DICK SPADARO
    Member Emeritus

    Awsomears, you diagnosed your own problem "spring doesnt give when I hit bump"... To stiff springs! What did the springs you used come from?
     
  10. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 5,567

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Beaner, "like GM does it"??? The 50's GM trucks had the shackle in front.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  11. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 5,567

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    The pack that Speedway sells will be softer, and also much more adjustable when removing leaves. I used a trailer spring on my Falcon, but only a couple of the sub leafs. My main leaf is the Speedway spring that I had leftover from my last build, so I got cheap trailer springs and tossed the main leaf so I could use the extras to build up a pack that had the right spring rate. You could order the Speedway springs and find it easier to set the rate with the thinner leaf.
     
  12. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,945

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have nothing to add, but do have a question. Some of the pics look like there is not a cotter pin in the castle nuts on the drag link. Hopefully there is, and I just can't see them.
     
  13. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,315

    squirrel
    Member




    The 50s GM trucks had the steering box in the back, where the "fixed" end of the spring is. Most vehicles with front leafs are built like that, shackle opposite steering.
     
  14. II FUNNY
    Joined: Jul 31, 2010
    Posts: 1,827

    II FUNNY
    Member

    Gm did it both ways. My 31 Chevy has rear shackles factory.

    MELTDOWN DRAGS
    VINTAGE DRAG MEET
    JULY 18,19,20 2014
     
  15. James Curl
    Joined: Mar 28, 2006
    Posts: 370

    James Curl
    Member

    But the steering box is behind the axle on the Chevy 50 truck and his has the steering box ahead of the axle. I would think his would have some bump steer over rough roads.
     
  16. awsomeears
    Joined: Feb 5, 2011
    Posts: 159

    awsomeears
    Member

    Lets say I remove the middle spring, if then my setup has give and my shocks then function I could very well bottom them out.

    seems that I have two things to fix.

    also squirrel the zip tie is from just driving around, full weight was at rest and I just ziptied them and as u see them that was the max travel
     
  17. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,315

    squirrel
    Member

    yeah, the shocks need to be set up so the suspension bottoms out on the bump stops, before the shocks bottom out. I don't see any bumps stop in there, aside from the bracket that's holding a hose...which also looks seriously flaky....
     
  18. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,551

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    Yep, that was my first thought when I saw the first photo of the springs. A pair of 25.00 each trailer springs that you can find in most trailer supply catalogs that are way too stiff for what you want to do. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...i_sku=125207&gclid=CJ2FnsKvhLwCFUiGfgodclAALQ
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  19. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,455

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    Those front shackles are very short, and installed at an angle that induces chassis 'jacking' when the spring wants to lengthen.....in order for the spring to increase in length when you hit a bump, the shackles rotate and want to lift the chassis up, hence the bounce effect. I would rework those shackle mounts so that the shackle angle is about 45 degrees angled towards the rear of the car. This should soften the ride by decreasing the effective spring rate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  20. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 5,567

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Bump steer is not caused by which side of the axle the steering box is located. Most the time it's caused by drag link angle, and that doesn't matter if it's cross steer or forward steer like many trucks and early cars. If the drag link is too steep, you'll get bump steer. Having a drag link as long as possible (cross steer or otherwise) is the best way to help alleviate bump steer. The shorter the drag link, the more likely any angle will affect bump steer.
    As for in front or back of the axle, it's going to be little affect if the shackles are short, and everything is tight. If the shackles are long, or everything is sloppy, then cross steering on the same side as the shackles will push/pull the front axle when turning. If the cross steering is on the opposite side from the shackles it has less affect on the axle, so more positive feel to the steering.
     
  21. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 5,567

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    That was my point; there is no traditional GM placement of shackles.
     
  22. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,315

    squirrel
    Member

    There is....most of them had the shackles opposite the steering

    But not all.
     
  23. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,714

    sunbeam
    Member

    From your picture if you do get more axle movement with softer springs you will run out of shock travel.
     
  24. awsomeears
    Joined: Feb 5, 2011
    Posts: 159

    awsomeears
    Member

    Yea I did just mention that, good to see this conversation as this thread and my other will help others.
     

  25. Why do you suppose they changed it? ;)

    Actually a long time ago 4wheel and off road did an article on why move the shackles to the rear. it has to do with the caster angle changing in a more prefered fashion when the shackles are at the rear as opposed to being in the front. The reason that it was so popular with the jeep guys was because when you hit a bump and get negative caster in a short wheelbase vehicle it is really noticable.

    But like I said earlier it has absolutely nothing to do with bouncing, that is a dampening issue not a steering issue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  26. 61 chevy
    Joined: Apr 11, 2007
    Posts: 891

    61 chevy
    Member

    cant help much, but would like to see picture of car
     
  27. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,341

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    With the springs as they are I'm surprised you actually got that much movement according to the zip ties...I'd bet the springs don't move much from unloaded to loaded, you have air ride, well whats in the tires at least..:D..Trying to work with what you have take the two leafs out....See how much it moves without the shock attached and post here..
     
  28. awsomeears
    Joined: Feb 5, 2011
    Posts: 159

    awsomeears
    Member

    http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Nova-Gasser-Style-Front-Leaf-Spring,68166.html

    These are the same springs used on our '62-'67 Nova Gasser front end kits. They feature a shorter length than our standard Gasser leaf spring.

    • 26" Eye to Eye
    • Six leaves including main leaf
    • Shorter length than our standard Gasser spring



    Wonder if these could be mine, regardless now that were all talking about leafs mine are Dang small compared to others.
     
  29. Just from looking at the pictures.....are you running lift blocks on the front axle and using them as shock mounts? If so, you should probably look at your local laws. It is Illegal in almost every state to run lift blocks on the front axle due the possibility of the side-loads placed on a front axle during a turn causing the blocks to eject from where they're supposed to be. This leads to a complete loss of front end control.
     
  30. Beau
    Joined: Jul 2, 2009
    Posts: 1,883

    Beau
    Member

    Is this something that developed? Make sure everything is tight.
     

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