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Technical Borg Warner T- series 3sp OD transmission questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 31pickemup, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. 31pickemup
    Joined: Apr 9, 2006
    Posts: 1,274

    31pickemup
    Member

    Hey Gang
    I'm putting a 292 in my 32 3-window and am wanting to stay with a period transmission. Which Borg Warner T-series 3spd OD transmission should I be looking for? Also any specific ratios? Also what bellhousing should I be using with it? Any help most appreciated!
     
  2. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,214

    Cosmo49
    Member

  3. sedan33
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 100

    sedan33
    Member

    I used a T86 (3 on the tree) OD in my Stude powered 33 Ford.
     
  4. 31pickemup
    Joined: Apr 9, 2006
    Posts: 1,274

    31pickemup
    Member

    Did they make a floor shift version?
     

  5. sedan33
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 100

    sedan33
    Member

    Yea, I think T85 or T96 were top loaders.
     
  6. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,214

    Cosmo49
    Member

    I never heard of or saw one but that certainly doesn't mean that they don't exist. I am very familiar with the non-synchro first gear Muncie front/Borg-Warner overdrive rear vintage'58- about '65? and my present 1969 Saginaw/Borg-Warner overdrive 3sp+od with all-synchro gears. Many parts on all the makes, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc., are interchangeable for the overdrive. They're getting very hard to find and command a good (read: high) price, that's why the boys are going for those t-5's. I am in the process of trading a '62 3sp+od for a one-ring 4 speed Saginaw. I will attach the overdrive of the 3 speed to the 4 speed case and be able to split the gears to get 8 forward gears by putting the governor on a switch...1st under, 1st over, 2nd under 2nd over, 3rd under 3rd over, 4th under 4th over. NO kidding! Tony P on this site has done it and the whole process has been written up in a hot rod magazine years ago.
     
  7. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,854

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    The split shifting is overrated. I put such a switch in my system, but the under/over spread is too thin for it to make practical sense. Shifts like an overloaded 18 wheeler between traffic lights.
     
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  8. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,745

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    If you want a 3 speed with overdrive...take a look at the Ford F-series pickup trans from the '80s.
    It is a 4 speed with 4th gear an overdrive ratio, 3 rd is 1 to 1. It is floor shift and can easily be adapted to to your engine. Eliminates all the solenoids, governors and wiring associated with early ODs.

    There is also a Mopar trans, used in Chevy vehicles, both cars and trucks, that is similarly setup and already has the Chevy bolt pattern, but uses a floor shift mechanism mounted on the tail housing, unlike the Ford, which is integrated.

    Ray
     
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  9. oldsman41
    Joined: Jun 25, 2010
    Posts: 1,282

    oldsman41
    Member

    yes i agree with hnstray on the f series trans they are pretty easy to get.
     
  10. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,214

    Cosmo49
    Member

    Mike, I agree with you, like a 21 speed bicycle all but the knowing realize that there is a lot of overlap in that application. The 4 speed I have is the one ring model with the 2.54 first gear and not the no-ring 2.95 so according to the shifts I diagramed there were nice steps with I think two close overlaps. And I would only do it very optionally, mostly just to mess with peoples heads. Yeah I'll keep the four speed on my column shift with a pull cable hooked up for the reverse. This application is going into a '49 half ton so it's quite the challenge to move the shifter away from your leg to shift being that the transmission has the side shift plate.

    Cheers,

    Cosmo in the '49
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
  11. Cosmo49
    Joined: Jan 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,214

    Cosmo49
    Member

    Yeah, but is there a reasonably priced adapter plate from Ford trans to Chevy Bell housing?
     
  12. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,854

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    This unit is called an SROD Single Rail Over Drive. Yes, it's a pretty good choice.
     
  13. dan c
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,174

    dan c
    Member

    but if you want the old-style electric overdrive, what you'll usually find for that engine is the borg-warner r-10, which bolts on the back of the trans. they're plenty strong, but there are some dos and don'ts to using one.
     
  14. oldsman41
    Joined: Jun 25, 2010
    Posts: 1,282

    oldsman41
    Member

    i believe offenhauser sells an adapter i think ive seen them in speedway catalog under 300.00 bucks think a couple of other companys make them probably same price. hnstray said there is also a mopar trans with chev bolt pattern didnt know that but it might be cheaper.
     
  15. 31pickemup
    Joined: Apr 9, 2006
    Posts: 1,274

    31pickemup
    Member

    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg Ok can someone please tell me what this is out of? And will it work for my Y-block? I was buying parts today off a old timer and he had this in the corner of his shop. He and I didn't know what it exactly was just knew it was a BW. Luckily it turns out to be a T86 with R10 OD :) took me a whole day to find one lol. If it's not what I need then I'm only out $50. Internals look great in the Trans.
     
  16. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,745

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Not Ford bolt pattern....my guess...maybe a Studebaker application. The T-86 (pictured) was used by Ford too, but the front mating surface of the case is different as is the input shaft dimensions. Also, Ford units had slip spline at the rear instead of a fixed yoke. That, too, suggests Studebaker to me. Ford pickups used a fixed rear yoke, but again, the front pattern is not Ford.

    Ray
     
  17. 31pickemup
    Joined: Apr 9, 2006
    Posts: 1,274

    31pickemup
    Member

    Thank Hnstray. Guess I'll put it up for sale!
     
  18. There are so many possibles it's hard to sort out what's what. I have two Ford OD manual transmissions, one marked '58 Ford, the other not marked, and I've yet to find out just what it came out of, just that it's probably older than the first one.

    The '58 would probably work for your needs, PM if you're intrested in it.
     
  19. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,854

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    The input shaft length and the short tailshaft housing tell me it's not a Ford passenger unit. Also, the Ford units are side-loaders, not top-loaders.

    Still a major score at $50.
     
  20. NMCarNut
    Joined: Nov 28, 2009
    Posts: 630

    NMCarNut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It gets confusing. Ford used both overdrive versions of the T86 (top loader) and heavier duty T85 (side loader) depending on the engine and application. Same applies to the R10 versus the heavier duty R11 overdrives. The T85s were found mostly in trucks, 312 cars, and T-Birds, and apparently the R11 for only the heaviest applications. With a 292 and size of your car unless you plan on abusing the T86/R10 should be fine. Depending on what you already have regarding transmission mount and drive shaft, transmission length and mount location may not matter but if you want to use a stock Ford Y-Block bellhousing you will need a transmission with a Ford bolt pattern and input shaft. Regarding gear ratios there are several, attached is a chart used in 1957 cars:
    FordTransmissionRatios.jpg
    When comparing the various T86s generally the closer the ratios the stronger the transmission, if you really care your best bet is spinning the transmission and verifying the ratio. And while overdrives units may be mounted on non overdrive transmissions it is important to be aware non overdrive transmissions lack a reverse lockout rod which prevents the overdrive from freewheeling when shifted in reverse. Something important if you plan on the transmission holding the car when parked.

    If you want to be "pure" old school an overdrive is the way to go, otherwise as stated the SROD might be a better way to go.
     
  21. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,745

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Ford T-86 were side loaders through the '50s, but early in the '60s began using the top loader case like the tranny pictured. I had one pulled from a '63 SBF V8 model. Through '64 they had the '49 up (Merc mid '51 up) bell housing bolt pattern.

    I still favor the SROD pickup trans suggested in above post, but if you either want to stay with the BW style OD, or are willing to use whatever suitable unit first crosses your path, keep an eye out for the T-85 trans. It was used in many applications by Ford passenger/T-Bird/Mercury and possibly light trucks, from the mid '50s thru '64 with early bolt pattern.

    They were usually found behind the larger (for the day) V8 (312 for example). They also were fitted with the stronger R-11 OD (vs R-10). They are alway side loader cases and can be easily distinguished by the side cover shape. The lower edge of the side cove is curved downward instead of straight, just like the BW T-10 4 speed, because the T-85 is what the T-10 was derived from.

    Ray
     
  22. NMCarNut
    Joined: Nov 28, 2009
    Posts: 630

    NMCarNut
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    T86 on top, T85 on the bottom:

    Overdrive transmissions.jpg
     
  23. NMCarNut
    Joined: Nov 28, 2009
    Posts: 630

    NMCarNut
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    And it is important to note, do not confuse the top loader design T86 with the Ford Toploader. They are very different. I am not aware of any Ford Toploader overdrive. Ford truck application pictured: FordToploader.jpg
     
  24. oldsman41
    Joined: Jun 25, 2010
    Posts: 1,282

    oldsman41
    Member

    if you didnt pay to much for the trans keep it you may need parts for a rebuild on other trans the planatary gear and sun gear are very expensive if you have to buy new. my 51 merc had a bad od unit and i rebuilt it with the parts from a 53 od i bought for 20 bucks.the guy that had the car before me ran it dry and welded the gear to the shaft i had to cut it off with a plazma cutter.
     
  25. 31pickemup
    Joined: Apr 9, 2006
    Posts: 1,274

    31pickemup
    Member

    Did they ever make a after market floor shift for the t85/86?


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  26. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 890

    PackardV8
    Member

    31pickmeup has found a '51-56 Studebaker V8 T86. There were several adapters to bolt Cad/Olds/Chev engines to the Stude trans. Might be one for a Y-block, but I never saw it.

    What he needs is the late-'60s Ford truck T85 overdrive. They are hell-for-stout and had good street ratios. Too bad he's so far away, because I've got one under the workbench somewhere.

    There were literally dozens of aftermarket floor shift kits for the T86. JC Whitney, Spark-O-Matic, Ansen, Foxcraft and two different Hursts. The Indy is the cheapo and the older SyncroLok is the good one.

    jack vines
     
  27. 31pickemup
    Joined: Apr 9, 2006
    Posts: 1,274

    31pickemup
    Member

    Packard you can always ship it :)
     
  28. Hey fellas, I'm new to the forum.
    I'm looking to upgrade from my T96 standard to a transmission with overdrive. Do you guys know If the T96 and the T86 that you mentioned here are interchangeable?

    I'm finding it difficult to establish which one to look for, and apparently the same T96 have different bolt patterns to the bell housing? The T96-1 that I have has 4 holes in-line with each other
     
  29. WHY BE ORDINARY ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  30. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,563

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There are a few T-85/T-86 3 speed with overdrives on that auction site we all know and love. One of them even has a floor shift conversion; item number 1383607512002 for anyone interested. I have a couple of the Muncie 319 overdrive transmissions, and I've collected a few Hurst shifters and install kits. I have another floor shifter that I have no idea what it was for originally; it bolts to the FLOOR, so it really could be used with almost anything. I thought Corvair, based on the thin stick and shape, but I can't find any information, anywhere. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     

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