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Technical Borg and Beck VS Diaphram leg pressure

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Studegator, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. Studegator
    Joined: Dec 22, 2008
    Posts: 57

    Studegator
    Member

    Ok, I have searched all over the web about this subject without getting a definitive answer.
    For a street car is there a definitive answer of how much "lighter" the leg pressure is when comparing
    a B&B style pressure plate with a Diaphragm type pressure plate?
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 44,292

    squirrel
    Member

    No.

    And...does the clutch linkage in your car have an over center spring?
     
  3. Studegator
    Joined: Dec 22, 2008
    Posts: 57

    Studegator
    Member

    Yes, it has a return spring that acts as an over-center spring.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  4. I like the Borg and Beck,,,but it does require more leg pressure than the diaphragm type.
    If not a super high horsepower combo,,,,I would go with the diaphragm.
    I know that is what I’m gonna do with my next builds,,,my high HP days are behind me.
    And besides,,,the new diaphragm types are stronger than the old days,,or are at least marketed as such.
    Just my opinion,,,,and I always listen to Squirrel’s advice as well.

    Tommy
     
    loudbang likes this.
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  5. I picked up a B&B from Butch aka 56sedan delivery here on the hamb for my super t-10 in the '38 I'm building...testing the install, my 115lb wife couldn't comfortably depress and hold the clutch. Will be installing the LUK diaphragm clutch as she is able to push and hold it comfortably. That's about as quantitative as I can get.
     
  6. If it's Flathead related there was a Hot Rod magazine article that covered the options and soulotions....I kept it around awhile and kept it handy but that was before the fire.....
     
    loudbang likes this.
  7. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,705

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would be interested to see that article with the diaphragm clutches for flatheads. Anyone know the magazine date?
     
  8. Thinking it was late 90's.....it still might be in that back room - haven't cleared it all out yet. The guy had a 1940 Ford tudor as I recall and was tired of the heavy foot he was having to use.
     
  9. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,705

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've got a 32 Ford tudor with a stock 40 Ford 9" pressure plate and would love to have a softer pedal. I don't go racing (except for that one time).
     
  10. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,690

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    YES...The diaphragm pressure plate is MUCH easier on the leg.

    Back in 1962, my dad had a bright red 409 Impala.
    I do not know why, but he removed the GM installed diaphragm plate and installed,as I recall it being the Borg and Beck plate. Three arms, three spring sets in any case.

    All he did was bitch and moan about the pressure...NOW...required to push in the clutch pedal.

    After about 6 months or so, he put the diaphragm pressure plate back in and all the whining stopped. Much of the reason for the bitching was that he had about a 45 mile trip to work every day, so there was a good amount of daily clutch pedal work to do.

    So, YES, same car, same driver, big difference.

    Mike
     
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  11. Over the last thirty years, everything I have that is equipped with a standard that I have been driving, has a diaphragm clutch. I like them for everyday driving.

    I do have an 11 inch B &B clutch ready for installation in my Cameo, along with a Super T 10, but this would mean that my wife would have a problem driving the truck. That is why it will probably stay on the shelf.
    Bob
     
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  12. From what I have read, not experienced, the Borg and Beck style is designed for a tighter grip and used behind high HP engines. If you don't have a high HP engine, invest that money in a solid steel flywheel instead.
     
  13. wheeltramp brian
    Joined: Jun 11, 2010
    Posts: 835

    wheeltramp brian
    Member

    In my avatar.i swapped from a Borg and beck to a centerforce 2 diaphragm pressure plate.huge difference in effort! The old one would slip when I'd tack it up and drop the clutch.now it grabs as it should.even in second gear starts
     
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  14. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 904

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had problems with the three finger clutch in my 38, it was always "stiff" but worked ok, until....it wouldn't release. That's really fun when you have just pulled into a big box store. Drove it home on the starter and skillful shifting:) I put a diagram clutch in and the pressure effort is much nicer. Wish I'd did that a long time before.
     
  15. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 14,705

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Your 38 what?
     
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  16. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,384

    porknbeaner
    Member

    My legs are shot I use a hydraulic clutch. Someone is not going to like it but I am determined to continue driving.
     
    paul philliup likes this.
  17. Beaner,
    It might be untraditional,,,,but I plan on that as well.
    I am still gonna use the clutch fork,,,just mount a slave cylinder in place of the linkage rod.
    Heard too many horror stories about hyd. T.O. bearings leaking.
    I will still use the diaphragm p.p.as well,,,,,less moving parts inside.

    Tommy
     
  18. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 904

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    38 Chevy, you can see the hood and fenders to your left, thanks for asking. My other "38" uses .357 ammo:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
  19. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 904

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My neighbor had a internally (infernally?) mounted hi dollar hydraulic clutch throw out bearing in his 40. It failed early in the game, he was not a happy camper. He and his son muscled the transmission out and removed the offending bearing and went to a hydraulic with a throw out arm. I actually ran a similar set up on the 38 Chevy for quite a few years until I decided I wanted old fashioned pedals on the floor. He's the best neighbor, he helps me but never asks me for any help. Maybe that is statement on his perception of my skills:)
    Just to add a little personal interest, when he was in high school (mid 60's?) he found a nice 40 coupe with a hopped up flatty and made arrangements to buy it. He first had to sell the 50 something Ford he was driving, but it needed some work, so he skipped school to do the necessary work. His dad found out, and the deal was off. I guess this car is the one that replaced that car 45? years later. I've seen pictures of this car when he started, it was a roach, almost as bad rust wise as a Studebaker:)

    IMG_1908.JPG
     

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