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Bone Splittin'

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 340HilbornDuster, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,963

    340HilbornDuster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Need you guys help / advice.

    Got this nice front end. (Pic # 1 & 2)
    1.) What year is it?
    1b.) Plan to buy a dropped axle to use wiht these bones. (best choice?)
    2.) How do I split the bones and still leave the spring in front?
    ( I like the look of (picture # 3 - Blu/chrome) spring in front)

    It'll go in a 32 frame.

    Mahalo
    Tommy
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Soviet
    Joined: Sep 4, 2005
    Posts: 729

    Soviet
    Member

    [​IMG]

    Drums are '36-'39. Snout height will differentiate '36 or '37-'39. My eyeball calibration isn't up to date in that spec.
     
  3. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 12,804

    3wLarry
    Member Emeritus
    from Owasso, Ok

    Do Not...leave the spring in front of the axle if you're going to put it in a 32 frame...it'll look stupid because it will put the front wheels in the wrong position to the rear. The spring belongs above the axle as per original.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  4. Larry is right,,you can cut the front spring hanger off and split the bones to use with a '32.

    You can buy spring perches and locate the spring on top of the axle. HRP
     

  5. Its got wide 5 drums.
     
  6. 117harv
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 6,590

    117harv
    Member

    The front end in the pic is a 37-41, if the drums are original to it that would make it a 37-39. As far as leaving the spring out front on a 32, I have to agree with the previous posters, don't do it. However if you must, mount the split bones where you want them and then heat the arms and bend them back out untill they are paralell. If you want a dropped axle and you go with a 28-36, the spring wont work as it will be too wide and a new custom one will have to be made.


    As far as the axle choice I would run an origonal dropped axle not an aftermarket, there are guys here that do nice work in that department.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2014
  7. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,963

    340HilbornDuster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hi Guys.
    Looking at the picture again & it is a 32 frame....
    What if I relocate the spring beam forward and use this axle (below)...?
    Still Goofy?


    From Speedway:
    1937-41 Ford 4" Drop I-beam Axle, Plain
    Price: $454.99 EA



    [​IMG]

    Item #: 7022860

    Item Details:
    47-3/4" King Pin Centers
    38-1/2" Perch Centers


    Fits 1937-41 Ford cars with stock or modified wishbone or Speedway 4-bar kits. These 4" dropped axles accept 1937-48 Ford spindles and have 2-1/4" axle bosses. I-beam axles feature a one-piece design cast from high-strength 65-45-12 annealed ductile iron.
    Axles measure 47-3⁄4" between king pin centers and 38-1⁄2" between spring perch boss centers. Plain finish.

    Mahalo
    Tommy
     
  8. I see a 32 grill shell but I don't see a 32 frame. HRP
     
  9. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,963

    340HilbornDuster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks for your input guys! and getting me in the right direction!
    It's my first front end and I obviously have a lot to learn...Lots o' research to do!

    I still like the "Unconventional Look" of the spring in front but it'll be hard to get the right stance on the Phaeton that way.

    T.B.C. Tommy
     
  10. Rem
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,256

    Rem
    Member

    The only thing I would add, apart from agreeing with 117harv that Ford parts beat aftermarket hands-down, is that the Speedway axle you are considering is a Magnum axle, and if you search on here you will find that they're not the most popular choice! I realise that they may have overcome their problems by now, but they are still a cast axle. By the way, is that how much new axles are now? Buy an original one and get it dropped for about the same money.
     
  11. patrick english
    Joined: Feb 15, 2008
    Posts: 806

    patrick english
    Member
    from La puente

    I can sell you a stock 37-41 axle for $400 dollars less..Something to think about.


    ^^^^

    Lol can you yell i didn't read the whole post?whats wrong with using the stock set up you have?being low isn't cool anymore,all about being high...
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  12. patrick english
    Joined: Feb 15, 2008
    Posts: 806

    patrick english
    Member
    from La puente


    A cast axle?Not forged?
     
  13. Rem
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,256

    Rem
    Member

  14. MATACONCEPTS
    Joined: Aug 7, 2009
    Posts: 2,069

    MATACONCEPTS
    BANNED

    2" vs 2-1/4" Axle Bosses of the wishbone can determine witch axle to buy. Measure the the thickness of the axle where the bones connect.

    If it 2-1/4" get a dropped 1928-31 axle. 2" get a 1932.

    Try not to split the wishbones, DOES NOT Articulate right. Used on the Salt FLATS. However, split wishbones turn the axle & bones into a big anti-sway bar, causing less roll but twisting the axle. You could mount the split wishbone more toward the center of the K member for better articulation.

    If you use front Tube Shocks lower mount off the bottom of the perch, use 28-31 wishbone axle connections cut off and welded to the longer 40 style wishbones.
     
  15. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,963

    340HilbornDuster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Did some "fitting" last night.

    1st. It's an old worked on 32 frame allready. (no history will be lost!)
    Maybe it's not convetional to do this way..? But I like the look!

    I plan on keeping the original axle without dropping it.
    The whole package needs to come up another 1.5 - 2 inches to get the stance.
    Right now I have 5+ inches clearence between the top of the axle and the frame...so it'll be at least 3". (Should be enough with that spring..?)
    I can either cut the frame horns off or notch them (make a channel) where the spring goes.
    The existing radiator cross member stays and i plan to weld in a tube cross member inside it with spring clamp locators welded to it. (Like the sucide front end on a T)

    The whole package also needs to come forward 3/4" - 1" to line up with original and give room for the spring to move.

    A 32 grille will hide the spring bracket.

    Against recomendation (even though I see it done all the time...) I'm gonna heat those spring perches and bend out the bones....BONE's will be Splitt!
    ...Doing this by putting the axle and spring in jig so the spring stays centered and aligned!

    It looks like the outer spring mount with a longer bolt would make a good shock mount...or maybe I'll go friction Schocks.

    This is what's in my head right now...
    If this works out I'll continue the build here @ Project 29 Phaeton
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=772795

    Thanks for all the inputs!
    & Please let me know if this all sounds nuts...or bolts?

    Mahalo
    Tommy
     

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  16. Rem
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,256

    Rem
    Member

    It's good to use the early parts :)

    Something to bear in mind, if you're dead set on splitting the 'bones, is that the '37-'41 axle is quite short outboard of the perches. When you split the 'bones and bend them out towards the chassis you lose a certain amount of steering lock as the tyres will hit them on tighter turns.
     
  17. 777
    Joined: Jul 17, 2008
    Posts: 196

    777
    Member
    from Pasadena

  18. 117harv
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 6,590

    117harv
    Member

    To add to this, I have seen split bones that are just a couple inches out each way to gain the clearance needed, not all the way to the frame rail. Doing this if you can will help with the above noted turning or lack of.

    Another option would be to use the later dipped bones and not split them...just a thought.
     
  19. MATACONCEPTS
    Joined: Aug 7, 2009
    Posts: 2,069

    MATACONCEPTS
    BANNED

    Get a Chrome MonoLeaf, Chrome Shackles, Chrome Perche, & cut those wishbones comfortabally, a 1000 times easier.

    See, One sentance.
     
  20. MATACONCEPTS
    Joined: Aug 7, 2009
    Posts: 2,069

    MATACONCEPTS
    BANNED

    This is Traditional, "Use what You Got"
     
  21. evintho
    Joined: May 28, 2007
    Posts: 2,017

    evintho
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here's another thought. I know some don't care for it but it works for me and doesn't look bad at all. This is a '38 front end on my 'T' roadster. Stock spring and axle. After splitting the wishbones I cut and 'bent' them just aft of the mounts. This way you can still use the original spring 'cause the spring perches stay in the same place (no need to heat and bend 'em) and it gives you more clearance so the tires don't rub when turning, as eluded to by Rem.

    Here's the stock bones already split...................

    [​IMG]

    Here they are cut and rewelded..........................

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  22. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,963

    340HilbornDuster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    MATACONCEPTS - Traditional?
    Yep, I'm traditionally using what i got!.. On a Budget.
    Don't get me wrong...I LOVE the Old Style...Just don't have all the old goddies!
    I'm sure someone "back in the days" kept the spring up front.

    EVINTHO - New way to Break a Bone:
    Me Like!...Thank's for getting me out of the box!...And it Looks Really Good too!
    This also gives you a chance to change the Caster angle and get the bones parallel (or looking good) to the frame.

    If i need to really get down in the weeds, I can always cut my frame back like yours.
    Front Spring Suicide?

    Thanks Guys!
     
  23. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 12,804

    3wLarry
    Member Emeritus
    from Owasso, Ok

    banging...

    head...

    on...

    keyboard...
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  24. Aloha Tommy --

    Turn those tiki torches up brah, it's hard to see what's going on in your photos. It looks like you've got yourself one ono original frame, yeah? Do it justice.

    The spring-in-front thing is a little goofy in 2013, but it was a solution guys used back in the day. Google "Wally Parks Roadster" and check his set up.

    A good point was made about the location of the perch bosses on your current axle. Yeah, if you split the bones too far the tires are gonna run into them when you turn -- but the real reason to shit can that axle is that -- with the perches that close to the kingpins -- is that it's downright fugly. Look hard at other guy's front ends, you want that graceful sweep of the axle and wheels way outboard of the spring perches. You want it to look like a bird soaring up over the Pele, not like a fucking tractor.

    One last thing, 35-40 wishbones are a kinda big and thick for a Deuce chassis. Kinda like a good looking wahine with fat ankles, yeah?

    If you don't have a copy, order the Mike Bishop/Vern Tardel book on building traditional-style hot rods.

    Good luck man, do that frame justice.

    Dave
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  25. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,963

    340HilbornDuster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Watch Yur Head man...

    Mahalo Braddah!...If it's good enough for Wally....
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90043
    Looks Cool!...And it's Different / Traditional...?..And I'm Goofy!
    I'll be nice to the frame!..promise.
    And if it looks like chicken crap, I can always spend the money on a real front end later (when i get one of my cars sold!) and weld the frame horns back on again!

    It's Aloha Friday!...Time to go home and get to work & get 'er rollin!

    Tommy
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  26. mushmouth
    Joined: Aug 20, 2005
    Posts: 285

    mushmouth
    Member
    from Minnesota

    It's cool that you want to build your front end a little different than all the other guys. One of my favorite cars is the Frank Mack T. You should check out that front end.

    I don't want to sound discouraging, but just give some food for though. If you do go through with this then take lots of pictures and keep us all updated (I geek out over watching people fab things). Any way I was just wondering this:

    You said you weren't going to ruin the history of the frame, so wouldn't giving it a bull dog style front crossmember kinda be like scralling a mustache on the Mona Lisa?
    It's such a pretty frame.

    If you never did a front axle before why not do something a little more conventional?
    It seems a little ambitious on't it?
    Is it about making a statement, or having fun in your hotrod?
    What if it ends up not looking so hot after the dust settles? Now you're out more money in order to fix or edit what you did.
    Would the time it takes to build your front end this way be shorter than saving some dough and assembling something thats been tried and true?

    Sorry if I offend by asking questions. I'm not looking for a fight. It's your car and there are no rules you know.
     
  27. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,122

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    :DI feel your pain.
     
  28. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,963

    340HilbornDuster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hi Guys

    No Worries! No Offense taken from anyone! Y'all Good!

    This weekend I will move everything up/down/sideways meassure & meassure again...
    Who knows, Come monday I'll say, "Man that was a dum idea!" ...I'm gonna buy me a "pop in" pre-engineered front end...
    Or I'll get my Sharpie out and give Mona a Smile!...Who knows?

    I know It'll be a fun journey though!

    Mahalo Guys!
    Tommy
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  29. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,963

    340HilbornDuster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Attached Files:

  30. Tommy -- you going to drop the A touring body on this chassis? A full-Wally tub would be da kine.

    Dave
     

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