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Body Filler

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by MT26, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. MT26
    Joined: Oct 7, 2011
    Posts: 174

    MT26
    Member
    1. Virginia HAMB(ers)

    Can anyone give me advice on using body fillers? Its my first time doing this type of work so don't want to screw it up too bad! I have been researching the various types and have come up with a couple I think seem to fit my purpose. The two types are USC Fuzion Body Filler (non-spray on) and evercoat Slick Sand Rage Extreme (spray on). Anyone use these before? Thanks
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    Last edited: Dec 13, 2011
  2. You seem a little confused with your products. USC Fuzion is a spreadable body filler. Evercoat Slick Sand is a sprayable polyester primer and Rage Xtreme is a spreadable filler like Fuzion. What exactly are you looking for and trying to accomplish.
     
  3. MT26
    Joined: Oct 7, 2011
    Posts: 174

    MT26
    Member
    1. Virginia HAMB(ers)

    Thanks K13. Was reading article and both looked sprayable. I am working on body of 26 Mod T and want to get the low spots out without too much spreading of body filler. Heard the new spray ons work really great for this.
     
  4. MP&C
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,361

    MP&C
    Member


  5. zibo
    Joined: Mar 17, 2002
    Posts: 2,346

    zibo
    Member
    from dago ca

    I've been using this Evercoat Z-grip,
    the spreadable type,
    and the stuff is so easy to use.
    It spreads and sands so nice.

    I think the most important part is getting a 6" DA sander.
    I've got a porter-cable electric one and it kicks ass,
    I actually like it better than the air version.
    TP
     
  6. rustang
    Joined: Sep 10, 2009
    Posts: 710

    rustang
    Member

    I've used the Evercoat line of products....they are all good for various applications...it all depends on what you are trying to do.
    Tom
     
  7. Noland
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,237

    Noland
    Member

    I use rage gold for regular spreadable bodyplastic, I like upol dolpin glaze as a nice finshing putty. Ive used both zchrome rust defender and evercoat slick sand sprayable polyester primer and both work good. I personally like rust defender better. good luck with your project.
     
  8. Adrian Rollini
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 155

    Adrian Rollini
    Member

    Use the spreadable filler. Its easy spread on, and sand off. Try to take out as much of the dent as possible before you put the filler over dent. I never used spray filler so I can't give you any advice. I always used spread filler.
     
  9. MT26
    Joined: Oct 7, 2011
    Posts: 174

    MT26
    Member
    1. Virginia HAMB(ers)

    I have the 6" DA sander and my arms are probably gonna hurt a lot also
     
  10. Thumper
    Joined: Mar 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,610

    Thumper
    Member

    Get some long boards too. Works great for getting everything nice and flat.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2011
  11. Make sure you are not putting spray on filler on bare metal. Or any filler for that matter.
     
  12. 3m 01171 is a premium filler and cost less than rage gold or rage extreme. it is an easy sanding filler the leaves no pinholes. just my 2 cents.. if you want to stay in the super cheap range, then look at the evercoat lite-weight #156 (gallon) filler. it is a good filler and it won't rape your wallet like gold and extreme will
     
  13. von birch
    Joined: Oct 17, 2008
    Posts: 205

    von birch
    Member

    THANK YOU JESUS! finally someone who primes their metal before bodywork! i had to let that out, i find myself in situations (out of my control) where i have to put filler on bare metal and it drives me nuts!

    sorry man, i'm not helping much, but everything everyone said sounds good
     
  14. 30 years in the collision industry and I have NEVER worked in a shop that primes before filler. Nor have I ever seen a filler failure on properly prepared metal.
     
  15. stubbsrodandcustom
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,395

    stubbsrodandcustom
    Member
    from Spring tx

    evercoat z grip...

    grind down all areas to be applied...

    and get 36 grit and 80grit to start shaping when the filler gets past tacky but not dry.... saves tons of time trying to sand dried filler...
     
  16. chopt49
    Joined: Jul 5, 2006
    Posts: 945

    chopt49
    Member

    I agree... it is ALL in the prep!


    .
     
  17. I still use the dupont stuff that comes in a gallon can. I don't want to learn anything new i guess.

    best advice I can give you is spread it thin, several coats if necessary and lean hard on the paddle so you don't get air pockets.
     

  18. BEST POST OF THE DAY!!!! Cut my filler time by at least 50% when I went to this method years ago. I rarely if ever use air tools on filler. NEVER a DA! I teach collision repair now. I don't allow the students to use air tools on filler. Any of you guys trying to learn to cut filler, put down the air tools, get out your file board. Get on the filler as soon as it stops smearing. It's both fast, and you get a straighter cut.
    .
     
  19. I still use a rasp for shaping. I think some fellas call it a cheese grater.
     
  20. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 6,761

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    For years I've heard the debate over filler over primer, or under primer. Seems for every person who says prime first, there's another who says fill then prime. I'm not sure which is correct. I've tried it both ways, and both seem to work equally well, but I'm no expert.
    When I worked at the Cadillac dealership in my younger years, all the bodymen swore by never priming first, and always putting filler over roughed up bare metal.
     
  21. Its kinda the same. You let the filler set up slightly longer. I use norton blue 40 grit. Paper fills up but cuts anyway. almost as fast as a cheese grater, but not so aggressive.
     
  22. Man some of you guys need to try some of the newer fillers like Evercoats Quantum. Cheese graters and 40 grit are old school methods for poor sanding fillers. You think you save time and money buy buying cheaper fillers and working them that way? You spend twice as much on sand paper and twice as much time removing those 40 grit scatches. Buy better fillers, let completely cure, and start sanding with 80 grit.
     
  23. JohnnyP.
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,299

    JohnnyP.
    Member

    i have always done my filler work on properly cleaned bare metal that has been roughed up with 36 grit. the only times i have had to go back and fix bad fillerwork (not my work, on a customers car) is when it was done on top of primer but still with in collision standards thick, or just completely too thick on bare metal. i do it over roughed up metal only because i dont want to rely only on a chemical adhesion. when you give the steel a good area to grip now you have physical AND chemical adhesion. here is the proper way to prep metal:

    start with stripping the area and then some, filler needs room to feather out. clean you're stripped area with acetone. this is important because it gets rid of all oils and moisture off of the metal. now i use an air sander with a 36 grit disk on it to give it some tooth. i dont hold the trigger down, i i pull the trigger THEN push it down on the metal. this will give it more tooth for the filler to bite into.

    question for the guys on doing filler over primer:

    what do you sand the primer with before putting your filler on it? not trying to be a smart ass, just am really curious on this. no one has actually explained this side of it to me.
     
  24. ETwagon
    Joined: Apr 6, 2007
    Posts: 97

    ETwagon
    Member
    from Arizona

    I don't recall where I copied the following information but it sounds good to me. I also come from the school of filler over bare metal. I never had any failures in the 70's-90's and filler technology has come a long way since.



    "OK--Here's the gospel on body filler/bondo over primer. I used to work as a technical/sales rep for the company that makes rage filler. I know the guys (chemists) that developed the resin for rage filler. I've been a bodyman/painter,sales rep and technical rep for 30 years. The resin in rage and other body fillers is fiberglass (polyester) resin. Today's resin technology makes the adhesion of these new resins as good or better than most epoxy adhesives (glue). They are designed to really stick! Also they are somewhat flexible when used properly. Most or probably all filler manufacturers design and reccommend them to be used over clean and prepped (grinding with course-36 grit) and rust free (sandblasted)and dry (free from moisture) BARE metal. They will stick to epoxy primers with mechanical adhesion-they DO NOT chemically bond with epoxies. If you put filler over epoxy primer it has to be fully cured with no solvents (thinner-reducer) left in the primer and still should be sanded with a course grit and cleaned. In other words- It's a wasted step that may or may not cause adhesion problems later on. Most critical is to be clean and moisture free. Body filler resin is a thermal set plastic-it cures with heat."
     
  25. overspray
    Joined: Jan 14, 2003
    Posts: 1,232

    overspray
    Member

    "GUILTY" Bondo 101 in the tech archives-- a long read and I ain't gonna type it again!
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8318&showall=1
     
  26. Here's a trick for you, when sanding filler before it hardens completely, bend a welding rod like a u, tape the ends together. Old guys like me call this a smacker stick, hit the longboard with it, cleans out the soft filler from the grit.
     

  27. K13,
    For some of us it isn't about money it is about familiarity. Its the same with bare metal or primerd metal. You do what you know works and repeat it time and time again.
     
  28. fossilfish
    Joined: Dec 16, 2010
    Posts: 320

    fossilfish
    Member
    from Texas

    This really what was asked but I will take the middle here. If I am working on a car and the filler and chemically cured primer is used on the same day them I have no problem doing the filler on the metal. But in the Houston Texas area where the air is filled with water...very very humid! If you leave even one piece of bare metal exposed for more than a few hours rust will be there when you apply a cover over it. It is for this reason when I get a car totally stripped, it gets etched and primed with two stage primer like right now. Then I will add filler after scuffing. I have seen rust happen in minute along the Gulf Coast. I also use Ospho to treat all bare metal.
     
  29. So here is my take o this since my earlier post has been questioned. As a technical rep. for a huge jobber with 35 locations, I see paint failures regularly. The issue for me has nothing to do with adhesion. The filler will stick to the bare metal for sure if applied correctly over a properly prepared surface.

    To me the issue lies with the fact that there is no corrosion protection on the bare metal. I prime the bare metal first, and when I say prime I am not talking a high build primer surfacer. I am talking an epoxy or etch, followed by a primer surfacer. They are two completely different products. I will then quick block my primer and apply filler as needed.

    I was in a shop a few months ago that had a 71 Mustang get towed in. The guy rear ended another car. The hood on the Mustang had some damage from the accident. There was a huge area that had at one time been repaired once with filler direct to metal. Probably done many years ago. The filler popped loose from the impact, and under it was a huge area of bare metal that was covered in surface rust. There is no way to stop that from happening when applying filler over bare steel.

    As the filler hardens it creates heat, which can cause condensation (to a minor degree) between it and the care steel. This will end up causing rust.

    This is my opinion, but if you ask any paint company rep they will say the same thing. I deal with the filler company reps as well. And yes, they will tell you it sticks and can go right to bare steel. But when it fails none ever blames the filler, they figure the panel already had some rust, or the paint/primer failed etc.

    If doing it over bare steel has worked for you guys, stay the course. I am just relaying my own personal experience.

    Glenn
     
  30. carcrazyjohn
    Joined: Apr 16, 2008
    Posts: 4,844

    carcrazyjohn
    Member
    from trevose pa

    Use any brand but Bondo and get yourself a long board ,Thats my advice Im partial to dynatron ,Cheaper than Rage ,I havent tried it .All the pro shops use Rage
     

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