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Blown '38 Lasalle Coupe Build.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 38FLATTIE, Dec 26, 2009.

  1. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Because I decided to shoot for 300+ hp, I've been trying to find out more about the porting and polishing, and the cam. I've been convinced that the best way to find out exactly what areas need this is to cut the block apart! So, we are going to cross cut up a block, to identify how to get the maximum from it. I'll post pics, because I think this will be a cool learning experience.

    One of the problems presented by the cam is the position of the lifter blocks. There is not much room, before the lifter blocks are contacted. To go high lift, the blocks need to be modified. The other problem is getting a core blank ground, because of the cam gear cast into the camshaft.

    Right here, I need to say thanks to Pete1, and Bored&stroked! I really appreciate the direction and advice!

    Joe Panek (http://www.roto-faze.com/, knows how, and can make the cores. This guy has history, contacts, and knows what he is doing! Mostly, though, he is a really neat guy to talk to, and very, very helpful. Check out his 1936 supercharged V-12 Cad in a 34 Ford at the above link!

    He cuts the gear and back section off of a stock cam, and presses it into the new 8620 billet core. Guarantees there will be no issues! In addition, he knows these motors. Told me right away that the 1.375 diameter of the cam was not needed, and that he would make the cores at 1.25. That's .125 extra lift out of the gate. I was worried about having to modify the lifter blocks for clearance with the extra lift, but this helps out tremendously.

    He also told me not to worry about the crank. He said the rest of the motor might come apart, but a billet crank would be a waste of money on this build. I talked to Ross Pistons, and they will do the forged pistons.

    So, the next question- Will the head gaskets hold 14lbs boost, or will I need to o-ring the heads and block?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
  2. I know they're expensive, but I'd recommend custom rods too. I'm a fan of "long rod" engines, and there are advantages in piston design to be gained by designing the rod and piston together.

    the advantage in a custom crank would be design change. A while back you were talking about a 5 speed. During the design of the custom crank you could change the back end to SBC style, opening up all kinds of flywheel and clutch opportunity. In similar fashion, the front snout can be changed to use a more common and more effective harmonic damper. Rod journals can be made to take more common bearing and rod sizes, etc, etc.
     
  3. keeper
    Joined: Jul 24, 2006
    Posts: 398

    keeper
    Member
    from So Cal

    Buddy your ambition is inspiring.

    When I see you are deciding to O-Ring the pistions or not makes it easier for me make small decisions in my build. If that make sense. In my head I say "Well shit, it is not like I need to O-Ring the pistons or something, just weld it up and move on".

    Wish I had the balls to take on more in terms of the engine, well who knows by the time I get there and after reading this thread maybe I will.
     
  4. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member

    It's difficult to O ring a flathead engine as most people who do it use boring bars and they cut round grooves. You will need to find a CNC mill or a panograph to cut the reciver groove for the o ring. But I think if that is what you decide you need. you do it. PS I ran 17 pounds in my GMC without O rings and without gasket trouble
     
  5. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,283

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    It seems like 300+ hp shouldn't be such a big problem...only around one hp per cubic inch. Doesn't seem like you will be stressing parts excessively.
     
  6. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    HaHa! I have no doubt that you will. Without your input, and help, I wouldn't be this far along. For me, it always helps to have an excellant craftsman like yourself helping out!


    Good to know! I'm going to try it without them, and if I need them, I can add them later.

    Here are some pics fiftyv8 sent me. He's working on a couple of pieces for this build, and here are the patterns. Russ is also an excellant craftsman, and I always enjoy seeing his work. I'm not going to say what it is yet, I'll just let you guys see the progression.

    So far though, these pieces are going towards my favorite part of the build.
     

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  7. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Dave, Thanks for the PM. I agree with you, and really like those 41 stude lights. So, I guess I'll have to order some from Alchemy.
     

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  8. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Ok, The alternator mount and adjustment is finished!( first 3 pics)

    Remember when I said I was going to remove the logo's from the blower. They where milled off and replaced with a MEDUSA logo.

    Next, I need to figure out how to mount the wet sump oil pump. This means I will have to redo the pully's, so that the oil pump turns at half the spped of the engine.
     

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  9. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    This is a quick mock up, so I can see how it all fits together. When the wet pump is mounted, I'll tear it all down to be polished.Seems like this takes forever, because I can't buy anything off of the shelf for this!

    On my way back from PA. in three weeks, I'm stopping in Hiram, Ohio to pick up the Jag rear end and front suspension.
     

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  10. CADDYROD
    Joined: Nov 25, 2008
    Posts: 67

    CADDYROD
    Member
    from BUTLER PA

    I have access to another caddy motor.......its complete but dont know much about it...its still in the car....thanx greg
     
  11. It may seem like its taking forever, but man, is it ever going to be worth it. Very unique!
    Nice work on the intake.....
     
  12. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,535

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are you still looking for a good block, or did you find one?
     
  13. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    I'm still looking.
     
  14. emiliedk
    Joined: Dec 29, 2004
    Posts: 614

    emiliedk
    Member
    from denmark

    this is a neat build..it takes balls to start something like this!
    buddy did you ask eric about the block i have in colorado?..i dont know if its okay myself!
    i am keeping an eye on this you know!!
    -palle
     
  15. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Thanks Palle! I did ask Eric, but he said it was no good.

    How's your's coming? I haven't seen any updates lately!

    Ok, today fiftyv8 came by, and it was good to finally meet him and b.s.I had a great time!

    I decided to to a full mock up, and see if everything fit. It seems I left the exhaust at dad'd out in Kansas, so I had to use stock exhaust. The first pic shows the intake/exhaust hold downs. It is going to look pretty cool.

    The last two pics are a wet sump oil pump OJ sent to me to try out. I'm going to figure out how to mount it, and port the oil pan for it. This will allow me to get rid of the internal oil pump.

    This will do two things- take stress/wear off of the cam idler gear, and give me better oiling and oil pressure.
     

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  16. keeper
    Joined: Jul 24, 2006
    Posts: 398

    keeper
    Member
    from So Cal

    Buddy that is one mean looking creation you are building over there. Love it.
     
  17. 41 Dave
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 2,594

    41 Dave
    Member

    Buddy, The build on the Caddy motor is very interesting to follow. GMC Bubba's ignition is a electronic piece of art. It should be the spark to make that old Caddy roar to life ! Looking forward to the install of the Jaguar suspension. Will you be blowing the whole car apart to super detail the frame ? It sure would make a neat photo essay spread. Keep the updates a coming !
     
  18. that engine will be to nice to hide away in the car.
    very nice.
     
  19. This is really interesting to see. How much lighter do you think it´ll be than a stock Caddy Flatty?
     
  20. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Thanks guys! Yes, when I get the car back fron the fink'd body shop, I'll be detailing the frame. I need to get the front/rear Jag suspension in, the hidden clutch, etc.

    I'm trying to shave 100 lbs off the motor, and 500 total from the car. The car weighs in at 3850. I'm trying for just over 300 hp. If I succeed, with 300 hp, and a final weight of 3350, I'll have 11.17-1 weight to hp.
     
  21. amazing build. I have a flat motor in my '27 T roadster. It's all stock right now and ran perfect when pulled from it's street rodded donor. I have visions of a blown motor as well, but I'm not on that project right now..so who knows. I have an extra complete motor out of a Lasalle Hearse sitting in Bryan TX. Will be heading to Bonneville in August and it might could hitch a ride northwards if interested.
    hans
     
  22. howco
    Joined: Apr 14, 2010
    Posts: 295

    howco
    Member

    Can't wait to see more.....
     
  23. 41 Dave
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 2,594

    41 Dave
    Member

    Buddy, Have you started the Jag suspension change yet ? Was looking forward to seeing how that part came together.
     
  24. cmyhtrod
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 360

    cmyhtrod
    Member
    from ct

    Very cool, when I was younger I had a '38 LaSalle Conv Coupe. I had big plans and NO money so I sold it. Yeah I still kick myself in the ass.
     
  25. holeshot
    Joined: Sep 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,519

    holeshot
    BANNED
    from Waxahachie

    FLATTI...when you first started this thread, you said expensive is a relative term. well your old caddy is now worth at least $150,000.00 my question is RELATIVE TO WHAT?...POP.
     
  26. I say uncage that beast and make the rearend as pretty as all the other work in your car. I have not started my project yet but that is the plan with my jag rearend.
    I did find a good source of info at C.W.I. or Concours West Industries on the web , punch in Jag IRS and it will come up. They have some good pictures for ideas. Rob
     
  27. wrenchbender
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,115

    wrenchbender
    Member

    Man this build is one badass ride I really dig the blown flattie. As far as your jag rear I have done several independent rear end installs and I usually spring them with torsion bars. It cleans them up considerably and makes for a great ride. My dads T touring has a 10 bolt chevy with inboard disc brakes and corvette outer carrier hubs and was built in 1977 and has over 400,000 miles on it so longeviity is not an issue I will get some pics and post them in the next couple of days and as far as power my T coupe has over 400 horsepower and the rear end has not broke yet traction is awesome it won't spin a tire it just squats and launches anyway just a few thoughts for you.
     
  28. Flat Roy
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 474

    Flat Roy
    Member

    Thats looking really great Buddy. It looks like those heads come as close to the headers as the intake did. That thing is an engineering masterpiece in making every thing fit. Wow. No one will ever guess the mental sweat that went into it.
     
  29. 38FLATTIE
    Joined: Oct 26, 2008
    Posts: 4,350

    38FLATTIE
    Member
    from Colorado

    Cool! Love to see the pics, and get some ideas.

    Ain't that the truth! But then, you can attest to it, because I know the hours the intake took you to figure out and do! Thanks again! I'm going to have to shave some off of the heads. I'm even thinking of redoing the heads, to get just a little different look-I've got something in mind!;)

    Ok, guys, help me out here.

    I'm getting ready to install the Jag XJS suspension, and have some questions.

    The front I can figure out, but the rear I'm unsure on. Do you think I should keep the cage, or ditch it, and just build a good top mount.Anyone have good, clear pics of this?

    How do I get the proper pinion angle, without the weight from the body, engine, etc.?
     
  30. The pinion angle doesn´t change, surely?

    There was a very good Jag IRS thread on here somewhere. There´s a bit more to doing it right than most people think IIRC.
     

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