If my earlier post about the recent BS in CA didn't make sense to you, then this should: http://streetrodderweb.com/hotnews/0410sr_boyds/ It ain't no joke, and it'll only get worse!
so what the hell can we do? i think i ought to write my congressman for starters, if for nothing else than to know i did somethin. can we help SEMA in any other way? anything??
Don't poke your head out of the foxhole... You don't thimk the high profile of Boyd and the TLC and Discovery Channel shows had anything to do with this do ya? All they do is talk about how much this and that is worth. A little cross check by bean counter and WHAM! Ryan is right, Keep it underground.
wow, I wonder who else that applies too. Determining the value of a vehicle such as a model A....that could be gray area...I bought my cowl, and truck bed subframe, all for less than 400. So is that the value? or do I have to give DMV the value of what some blue book says even if it's in shitty rusty shape....I wonder how this will roll out onto all of our doorsteps....I don't imagine that the state will forget about this discovery of hotrod value/registration stuff anytime soon since it means BIG money to state of CA.
If you've got a "legit" steel hot rod (in some cases, even a Rod Bod or Brookville), don't fret much...yet. It's the "kit" style rods which The Man is after. If you live in CA and registered a glass-bodied car under the pretense it was a "genuine" '23/'32/etc., they not only want to clarify the title, but get their fair share of taxes. It's not just one arm of the law that's involved...it's a number of agencies, which is why they're going at it full force. The main area that's really gray to me is this: You can register a hot rod before it's even driveable. With the proper paperwork, you can legally register $500 worth of parts and pay taxes on that $500. But, a year or so later, once you've actually finished building your car and it's value is anywhere from $1,000-20,000 (depending on what club you're in!), you've still got a registration based on that $500 pile of parts you originally titled. If they're going to stand behind this, they need to make a clear law that states you can't register any vehicle unless it is in running/driving condition, or at the very least, set up a different tax structure.
There are a number of different scenarios for vehicle taxation depending on the state. Michigan did license plates based on weight and sales tax based on what you paid for the vehicle. About 10 or so years ago new vehicle plates began to be based on new value - so a $170/year plate will be $170/year until the POS dies. The older vehicles are still weight based - so far - and considerably cheaper - say, $35/$40 for a comparable vehicle. Sales tax is another issue - the DMV wants to collect based on what the vehicle is worth, not some bogus, 25% declaration. That became a bigger issue around the time of the plate change, though they aren't related. The underground economy is huge and Big Brother, whether Federal, State or Local wants its share. Charlie
[ QUOTE ] With the proper paperwork, you can legally register $500 worth of parts and pay taxes on that $500. But, a year or so later, once you've actually finished building your car and it's value is anywhere from $1,000-20,000 (depending on what club you're in!), you've still got a registration based on that $500 pile of parts you originally titled. [/ QUOTE ] OK, but what about all the tax money you have already paid out when you bought the rest of the parts to put your $20,000 dollar hot rod together?
[ QUOTE ] OK, but what about all the tax money you have already paid out when you bought the rest of the parts to put your $20,000 dollar hot rod together? [/ QUOTE ] Exactly my point. If you have receipts for the $19,500 difference, it shouldn't be a problem at all.
This isn't good news for any of us and quit being smug because you own a metal car. This is gonna open up a whole can of worms. I don't think I want to see the gubbmint trying to define something we have trouble defining ourselves. Are they gonna start taxing us on our labor? What about the guy who makes sock puppets and sells 'em at the flea market? What are they gonna do about the stacks of DVDs of new releases I saw at Flea World? Surely bootleggers and counterfeiters are a bigger problem than we are. What was Boyd thinking when he opened up his big yap? I suggest y'all shut your mouths right now about how you registered your car, because if you think the gubbmint ain't reading this board, you're nuts. Remember that what happens in California eventually sublimates it's way down to every state in the union, except Idaho, Idaho is a different country.
[ QUOTE ] Idaho is a different country [/ QUOTE ] Damn Skippy! We're trying to keep it that way too. Florida has nothing to worry about. What with the falling trees, flying trailer houses, wildfires, streets/rivers flowing out to sea, you don't have to worry about cars getting old. Every few years your insurance co. or disaster relief fund gives you a new car to replace the destroyed one...
What was Boyd thinking when he opened up his big yap? [/ QUOTE ] Flexing his Ego. The guy wear's a hat to hide the bald skull. Beard paint's his face near black. Think of all the Biker Build off's and Pimp my Ride's that may be hunted down to see if the ownwer has (in CA any way) de-valued their vehicle and comitted a Felony. Go deep, and lay low people.
They know everything they need to know. The title guy in Alabama has already been araigned in CA. It was only a matter of time. Don't think they won't enlist their own "experts", either...people that know specific chassis, bodies, etc. They aren't shutting us down, they're just forcing us to finally play by their rules.
explain the difference between a "kit car" hot rod body and using a brookville? i really would like to know what the difference might be. is it just that the b-ville's are steel?
There isn't a difference...right now, they're just on a fiberglass replica kick. Eventually, they will target all hot rods with suspicious registrations.
Wrong. You guys are talking about SALES tax on parts purchased. The State wants to collect on PROPERTY tax--- legally different. It's actually under the name of "registration fee", but the law regarding registration fees says that fee is based on vehicle value. Just as when you make improvements to your home, you have increased its value and therefore increased your property tax, it's the same with cars. This is how the law apparently reads. Edit: my comment above had to do with this comment: [ QUOTE ] Exactly my point. If you have receipts for the $19,500 difference, it shouldn't be a problem at all. [/ QUOTE ]
AZ has a Vehicle Lisence Tax that is a "lieu" tax, in place of a personal property tax. The formula starts with list price and depreciates it every year. So the annual tax on a new car is several hunnerd bucks, and on a 30 year old car it's $10. Which is as it should be, since we all know that cars depreciate in value. There is nothing in AZ law about old cars appreciating after they get old enough to be collectible, or after we dump a bunch of $$$$ into them. ---------------------- Assuming a similar tax system in CA, I think the problem is that people in CA are building new (expensive) cars, and titling them as old cars, which are fully devalued. Sales tax is another issue...we don't have a sales tax on used cars sold by private parties in AZ, I don't know what CA does.
Utah has a uniform fee for vehicles based on the age of the vehicle rather than the value. Less than 3 years is $150 3 or more years but less than 6 is $110 6 or more years but less than 9 is $80 9 or more years but less than 12 is $50 12 or more years is $10 The guys that owned the $40,000+ cars got that one passed a few years ago!
[ QUOTE ] Wrong. You guys are talking about SALES tax on parts purchased. The State wants to collect on PROPERTY tax--- legally different. It's actually under the name of "registration fee", but the law regarding registration fees says that fee is based on vehicle value. Just as when you make improvements to your home, you have increased its value and therefore increased your property tax, it's the same with cars. This is how the law apparently reads. [ QUOTE ] My comment was in reference to when the vehicle would be sold, or a declared value used for insurance purposes. Right now, if you had registered you car for a delcared purchase price of $500, then added another 10K into it, you'd still be paying fees based on the original price, not its increased value. If I put 100K into my house, I'm still paying taxes on the property as it was appraised at time of purchase and/or re-fi.
[ QUOTE ] ... If I put 100K into my house, I'm still paying taxes on the property as it was appraised at time of purchase and/or re-fi. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, if you take out a building permit to put $100,000 into remodeling your house a copy of the permit goes straight to the tax assessor and they raise your property value to what they think current market value is. That's really why they insist on you getting a permit to even change a toilet. They don't give a shit if you install it correctly, it's so they can raise your taxes! And it might not just go up $100,000 in value, if they decide it's worth $650,000 (common house value here in So. Cal. now) now instead of the $75,000 appraisal you paid for it in 1979 then that's what it goes up to if you have the audacity to remodel. I suspect that's why so many people sell their "new" dream house as soon as it's remodeled..They can't afford the new taxes that go with it any more so they are forced to leave it! The Fire Chief who lives at the end of my block s doing a two story addition and the County raised his property tax value on just his submitted plans. It went up as soon as he poured the extra foundation! He told me the City and County plug into the Federal Govt's spy satelites and get hi-resolution pictures of houses and back yards and compare them from time to time to see if any one sneaks in a new unpermitted backyard addition or odd "lawn ornaments" (cars) on them. The government is getting too damn much power, and it's not one or the other party, it's all of and all levels of government. (Where's my gun cleaning kit...) Government = The biggest GANG in town, and politicians are not our friends. Read Animal Farm, again.
Calif. has sales tax included in the process of registering your vehicle. One of their biggest problems is the value of the car (purchase price) is set as reported by the buyer. But it's always been that way and now with budget shortfalls Arnold is looking for any and all ways to fix it. He repealed the car tax to help get elected and is backdooring to regain those revenues. Unforunately sales tax on cars get charged everytime the car is sold. But it is the buyer cost and not that of the builder. If you have reciepts for the $19,500 for that car you just sold for $20,000. That will cover your ass when you have to report a profit on the sale of that car. But you can thank the gold chainers for one thing, they always spend way more to build that car than they can sell it for. I wonder if we should be reporting a ten thousand dollar a year income loss on our car business (hobby).
[ QUOTE ] I wonder if we should be reporting a ten thousand dollar a year income loss on our car business (hobby). [/ QUOTE ] Maybe some of the people on the board with a car related or other type of business could fill us in on writing off that "Shop Truck" off our taxes instead of just paying taxes on it if we gain and nothing if we lose on it's sale? Having the company name on it would probably be a good idea too? A business licenseof some kind is obviously needed to start I assume?
[ QUOTE ] Sales tax is another issue...we don't have a sales tax on used cars sold by private parties in AZ, I don't know what CA does. [/ QUOTE ] Are you sure? I thought there was a cap, like $1500 and above (which is pretty much everything) you pay sales tax. No?
[ QUOTE ] Read Animal Farm, again. [/ QUOTE ] All animals are equal. Some are more equal than others.
so the price of fiberglass rides in Cal will drop and steel will increase (if they are registered as 32). you sure Brooksville did not start all this to make their bodies worth more...
[ QUOTE ] If you have reciepts for the $19,500 for that car you just sold for $20,000. That will cover your ass when you have to report a profit on the sale of that car. [/ QUOTE ] Now you are talking about CAPITAL GAINS tax, or INCOME tax, when the car is sold for much more money than when it was originally purchased for. Same as when a home is sold for much higher amounts, after the owner has dumped 150K in improvements into it. He'd better show that the increase in value came out of his pocket, or he's going to be liable for possible capital gains tax even on that 150K extra that he put into it. Now, the SALES tax collected on the sale of the car is something the new owner of said vehicle has to pay-- one time, at the time of purchase. When I bought my '99 Tacoma wortruck, I had to pay over $750 in sales tax, based on the 7.25 CA state sales tax. The REGISTRAION FEE is based on the value of the vehicle (and GVWR for heavier vehicles too), and really is a PROPERTY tax, like what homeowners pay every year. Unfortunately, there is no Prop. 13 for that as there is for homeowners in CA (something the state dearly wants to repeal). Yes, you could wind up being taxed right out of your pride and joy as old car vehicle values climb and climb. That is, if you are barely affording to keep it as is, and if they decide to keep track of the market and decide to enforce collecting on your car. Who knows, could happen. If you are starting to realize that taxes are collected in virtually every way, then you are correct, sir.
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