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Technical Beyond frustrated with rebuilt 241

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Dan Yager, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Talked to the engine builder and he said that he has had a couple bad lifters this year when running on an engine stand. He offered to come help diagnose/tear apart.
     
    bchctybob and stillrunners like this.
  2. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,883

    sdluck
    Member

    These are hot rods that we put together, 1 step at time,got to fix them the same way. Breath deep and slow down.
     
    Dan Yager likes this.
  3. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 7,267

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Modern lifters are not infallible, and I've had several cases on two different cars where lifters simply came apart. In every case it was the wire clips that failed. I've gotten to the point that I replace the wire clips holding hydraulic lifters together with internal snap rings like lifter manufacturers used decades ago. I just take a new lifter to my local high end hardware store, along with my snap ring pliers. Then test fit snap rings until I find the right fit. Buy 16 and go home and replace all the wire clips with snap rings using my arbor press to compress each lifter while I swap them out. Never had a failure since.
     
  4. Guy Patterson
    Joined: Nov 27, 2020
    Posts: 369

    Guy Patterson

    That snap ring advice is great
     
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  5. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Sdluck, you are right. I gotta quit getting so pissed when nothing goes right. This was the 3rd attempt at the cam break in!
     
  6. wheeldog57
    Joined: Dec 6, 2013
    Posts: 2,305

    wheeldog57
    Member

    Breathe deep
    The gathering gloom
    Watch light fade
    From every room
    Seriously though, keep your wits bro, whatever the culprit is you will be able to repair it. Good on the builder to lend a hand.
    Hopefully one day very soon you will be driving your car and joking about how it was a pain in the ass. Unfortunately I believe we all have been there at one point.
     
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  7. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,883

    sdluck
    Member

    You can do it.
     
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  8. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Wheeldog57. You are right. I guess the past few months I’ve been ready to drive the beast! Baby steps
     
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  9. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,710

    73RR
    Member

    OK, now you have me downright curious. How about starting the story from the day it was assembled? And, how about telling us whose regrind and which lifter you used...as in a part number...
    And yes, cam/lifter failures will leave metal in the oil system so be prepared for a disassembly.
     
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  10. dmar836
    Joined: Oct 23, 2018
    Posts: 111

    dmar836
    Member

    Is it a warranty thing that you can't pull the intake(assuming rocker arm/pushrods don't tell)?
    Hoping for good news for you but if you have to deliver the non-running car or motor to him....
    Though I too am curious about the build - why is this the third attempt to break in the cam? Carb issues you had?
     
    Dan Yager likes this.
  11. Hi Dan ,
    No,,,,the pushrods are different length for intake and exhaust .
    I know early Chrysler are,,,,Desoto are,,,,and 426 Hemi are .
    It has to do with the rockers swinging in opposite directions,,,,and the rockers overall length .
    The exhaust rockers are longer because they reach all the way to the other side of head .
    So,,,,the pushrod cup is in a different length,,,,distance,,,,,to the centerline.

    Also,,,,these early Hemi’s had lifters with a 1/4 in pushrod socket in the lifter,,,,,later went to 5/16 diameter.
    The builder might have used different lifters,,,,,,maybe pushrod didn’t seat in the socket well ?
    Could be used wrong pushrods and it wore into the lifter socket and now has too much clearance?
    Also,,,,,since you had to try starting on three different occasions,,,,,maybe you wore off the lube before firing ?
    Either way,,,it doesn’t sound good.

    These old engines are great,,,,,,don’t take anything away from them.
    They are well built,,,,,and designed,,,,,,usually we miss something and make a mistake .

    It’s been sitting 5 years,,,,if heavy lube was applied to the lifters and it hardened in the lifters bores,,,it would prevent the lifters from rotating and cause a potential failure .

    I hope it works out okay .

    Tommy
     
  12. With a re ground camshaft your push rods would either be custom length or adjustable. It is possible one of the jam nuts wasn't tightened enough and the push rod screwed itself closed. I have had this happen to me after a rushed valve lash adjustment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
    sunbeam and Dan Yager like this.
  13. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,845

    Andy
    Member

    You can pry the valve down a little with a screw driver under the valve spring retainer and slide the rocker to one side. Don’t run it into the piston. I would remove the intake and valley cover and pull the push rod and I hope the lifter comes with it. The problem should be evident.
    For some reason 100% of the baby Hemi cams I have seen have the most wear on the very back lobe.
     
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  14. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,845

    Andy
    Member

    The hyd. lifters have about 1/8 in of stroke. They also have a very small relief on the side to let oil into the lifter., You can’t reduce the base circle much with the hyd lifters as they won’t pump up.
    If you are not up on Hemi’s, do not take the 10 bolts thru the rockers to remove the rockers. That also removes the heads.
    Just move over the one rocker.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
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  15. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,845

    Andy
    Member

    I would sure like an update.
    The other 7 cylinders should have kept the engine running without #8
    Can it be turned over?
    If it turns over, can you see the distributer turn?
    Something is really crazy.
    I sure wish you the best!!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
    Hnstray, Dan Yager and Johnny Gee like this.
  16. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,710

    73RR
    Member

    I have plenty of 241-270 head and intake gaskets if it helps make a decision...:cool:
     
    Dan Yager likes this.
  17. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Dmar836. Yes it has been carb leak after carb leak. Had it rebuilt again and throttle rod bushed and out in fuel pressure regulator. Ran great for 8-9 minutes
     
  18. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    73RR. Thank you. I’ll know more for everybody tonight. I see you’re just north of Commiefornia
     
  19. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Andy, I misspoke it’s #7. Engine still easily turns over. Have some help coming this evening so hope to have more info tonight
     
  20. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Andy, great advice thank you
     
  21. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Andy, you are a wealth of knowledge!
     
  22. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Slayer, there is zero adjustment on this set up. That’s why I thought it was fool proof! Ha!
     
  23. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    I don’t know a whole bunch on this project stuff. Had a local race engine shop do the rebuild. No idea on the grind or lifters. The builder said he’s come out whenever I wanted him to
     
  24. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Desoto291hemi. It had sat for 5 years! The first start up was great. Sounded awesome but started to get hot so I shut it down then carb leaked bad. Had carb rebuilt and tried again to have carb leak worse! This last go round was perfect until the tapping started. I think my temp gauge is off because the thermostat opened at 185 in a pot of water. Will know more tonight hopefully. Thanks for the info
     
  25. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,845

    Andy
    Member

    I am sorry for keeping coming back.
    I think something is wrong in that cylinder and is holding that valve open.
    Does it look lower than the rest?
    I think a compression check would show no compression.
    The cam and lifter may be fine.
    The intake and valley cover are removable without moving the distributor or the water pump housing.
    The valve may be stuck down far enough that the rocker will just slide to one side.
    eBay sells very inexpensive inspection tools to see inside a cylinder thru the plug hole.
     
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  26. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Andy, you are prophetic. Update: finally took time to check everything out real well it is a stuck exhaust valve on #7 cylinder. My mistake calling it #8. Push rod moves freely so I don’t think it’s bent or broken. Exhaust valve is stuck. Haven’t tried penetrating oil and light tapping yet. I can slide the rocker over enough to get to the top of the valve. You had it figured right! Thank you for keeping after this thread!
     
  27. Black Panther
    Joined: Jan 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,843

    Black Panther
    Member
    from SoCal

    Being a fresh motor..its likely that that particular guide is too tight..and when it warmed up it stuck the valve. On an old motor...a guide could be tight because of old oil or varnish..and possibly can be worked free. I'm afraid that with a new guide the only remedy is to pull the head and have that guide addressed. You might ne able to free it when the engine cools off but will likely happen again at temperature. At least you know what the problem is...could have been worse!
     
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  28. Dan Yager
    Joined: Jul 1, 2021
    Posts: 164

    Dan Yager
    Member

    Black Panther. Just so damn frustrating. Nothing has gone smooth. I mean nothing
     
  29. Black Panther
    Joined: Jan 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,843

    Black Panther
    Member
    from SoCal

    Dan...fixing old stuff can be very frustrating...I hear you.
     
    Dan Yager likes this.
  30. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 11,257

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Sorry to hear about your issues.

    While I don’t have a baby Hemi engine I do know what it’s like to have a valve guide issue on a new engine.

    I also know that a reputable engine builder will go the extra mile to fix the problem.

    Good luck with the fix.
     
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