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Hot Rods Beware of Ross Racing Engines!!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Vern 1963, Feb 10, 2020.

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  1. Vern 1963
    Joined: Nov 27, 2013
    Posts: 38

    Vern 1963
    Member
    from Virginia

    Here’s the receipt!! Note the build sheet says “Performance 394” and the receipt says “Early 394”
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,338

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Wow, $13grand for an engine! And 6 years waiting! Holy fuck! And what was received isn't what was ordered! Daaaaayyyuuuummmmm! How in the hell do you get involved in something like that?

    And you never talked to a lawyer?
     
  3. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,722

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I really hate to hear this, but with everything that the O/P has presented, it must be so. Some people can't handle success.:(
     
    bchctybob likes this.
  4. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 4,969

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    Short of tearing apart the long block to see what you have I would join an Old's forum and post pic's and info of what you just posted here. I find individual forums on specific automobiles & component's
    more "anal" about number's, etc., etc. Should you have to join another forum NO, but it might get you some answers quicker.............................................................................
     
    dirty old man and Blues4U like this.
  5. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 1,432

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    I feel a little ill....
     
  6. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 4,969

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    Yep, it's kinda like finding out there really isn't a Santa Claus.....................................
     
  7. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 1,432

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    I have put $ down.......................
     
  8. williebill
    Joined: Mar 1, 2004
    Posts: 2,510

    williebill
    Member

    I hate reading this post. After all the good press, I assumed these guys were all right. Looked up their location once, thinking about a road trip to see the operation, maybe do a little business with them.
    Our world has good, talented, qualified, honest craftsmen and women with integrity. We just have to find them.

    Their ads in the mags were always impressive.
    Damn shame.
     
    bchctybob likes this.
  9. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 1,432

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    He was at GNRS this year
     
  10. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 14,525

    Paul
    Editor

    Three bolt oil filter mount and iron water pump/timing cover make it a '59-'62 block.
    If there is a large number 4 cast at the top of the block extension it's a 371, if it has a 4-1/8 it's a 394.
     
  11. partssaloon
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 384

    partssaloon
    Member

    That's not a build sheet, it's an order blank for parts!
     
  12. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,285

    Beanscoot
    Member

    "I was real close to sending him my Nailhead. Glad I waited now.
    Anyone know a good Nailhead builder."

    I'm wondering why a competent local machine shop can't rebuild any American engine. Maybe I'm naïve, but they should be able to order the same parts, have access to the manufacturer's specs and machine to the same tolerances.
    I mean it's not rocket appliance. We are mostly amateurs, in the positive meaning of the word, ourselves and do a pretty darn good job on old cars.
     
  13. MAD MIKE
    Joined: Aug 1, 2009
    Posts: 413

    MAD MIKE
    Member
    from 94577

    That dyno picture is sketchy.
    [​IMG]
    Two bolts on the WP pulley.
    I can't see any rear crossover on the heads.
    Where is the coil/coil wire to distributor?
    Me-thinks that pic is a bit of a facade.
    Pretty sure those things would be addressed well before the air intake was installed onto the carb.
    Usually 'dyno pics' are of a running engine, belt is not moving, Super Flow gauges are off, I can't even see any bolts holding the headers on.

    When he said it was 'ON' the dyno, did he mean it was actually running 'on' the dyno? Or was it just 'on'(attached to) the dyno?

    The 'OldsFAQ' has the engine casting listed, but it is not clear if it is a 324 or 371. Not a 394 casting number. No idea how accurate OldsFAQ is with GEN I Rockets.
    If you can get the part number of the intake it would let you know if it was a low deck 303/324 or 371/394.
    ^^^This needs to be repeated, ad nauseam. ^^^
    Any large purchase should be done in this way, especially with private party purchases.
    Have had a few friends do such transactions, usually with vehicles, has saved them all sorts of aggro.
    The greedier the seller, the more likely they won't read all the stipulations and try to access the money prior to any of the agreed upon terms.

    That is complete horseshit. A total cop-out.
    Every dyno is going to give a different result, again, part of the agreed upon terms should stipulate how the engine was dyno'd and what accessories(if any) and how the intake/exhaust was configured.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
    6-bangertim, XXL__, Andy K and 6 others like this.
  14. MAD MIKE
    Joined: Aug 1, 2009
    Posts: 413

    MAD MIKE
    Member
    from 94577

    I'm spoiled. I live up the street from Hubbard, and a few miles north is Rankin.
    But otherwise, yes. Although anything that isn't a belly-button SBC or SBF may need to have a couple things addressed that a Gen IV SBC builder may not know about one them 'old timey' engines.
    Well, in this case...
    We have passion and are into detail, some shops just care about coin.
     
    Vern 1963 and kidcampbell71 like this.
  15. MAD MIKE
    Joined: Aug 1, 2009
    Posts: 413

    MAD MIKE
    Member
    from 94577

    Partially true.
    I've known a few vendors who've paid advertising in a mag and they get completely snubbed in articles just because someone with a 'name' bitches and may be competition to the paid advertiser. Even if the 'name' doesn't advertise in the mag, or worse, they ride coattails because of a 'name' they inherited.

    It's very political in mags. It's also why you sometimes you see what could be a great article with heavily edited out tech, 'because that doesn't sell'.
     
    Vern 1963 likes this.
  16. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,275

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Holy shit man, have you been patient. I hope for you there will be a happier ending to this story.
     
  17. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,338

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Yes, you're right. These engines have been around long enough that any decent engine builder should have access to the information he needs to build a good quality engine. Guys that specialize in specific brands or models of engine may have secrets that give them a little more, but any competent experienced builder should be able to do what's needed for a quality rebuild.

    If you dont have someone around you that you can trust, I'd give Tim McMaster a call (Hanford Auto Supply & Machine Shop). He's known for Y-block Fords, and recently he's been building flatties and even bangers, but I'd bet he would build you a great Nailhead. Ask him, see what he says.
     
  18. harpo1313
    Joined: Jan 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,786

    harpo1313
    Member
    from wareham,ma

    Good that this was brought to our attention. I always understood they cater to race only motors. But man , that shit don't stink attitude boils the blood.
     
    mctim64, 6-bangertim and Vern 1963 like this.
  19. Valve covers appear to be 371 or earlier center bolt design instead of 394 perimeter bolt, as well the bell housing area also appears to be 371 or earlier style.

    Sorry you were treated this way, and charged $13,000 for the pleasure. I'm guessing lawyers will need to be involved to make it right as it appears the vendor has no interest in correcting the errors.

    (added edit) As an additional comment, and am not making excuses for the vendor, but looking at the invoice, it specifies a 394 cid early Olds engine. If he took an early 324/371 Olds block, and bored and stroked it to 394 cid, technically, he met the terms of the invoice, so even with a lawyer involved, it may not do any good. But as a car guy, I agree that you did not get what you were expecting and paying for. And, the time frame is/was crazy!
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  20. Vern 1963
    Joined: Nov 27, 2013
    Posts: 38

    Vern 1963
    Member
    from Virginia

    The initial quote unquote build sheet specifically states PERFORMANCE 394 not EARLY 394. The receipt states EARLY 394.
     
  21. Vern 1963
    Joined: Nov 27, 2013
    Posts: 38

    Vern 1963
    Member
    from Virginia

    You know guys it wouldn’t have been so bad but I even talked to him about doing the trans swap on this car from the Slim Jim to the TH 350 or 400. I questioned him about tunnel clearance because these cars have very narrow tunnels and he said with his tranny conversion all I might would have to do is take a ball ping hammer and ding the tunnel in one spot. So don’t give me no shit that he didn’t know what car we were dealing with and what my intentions and expectations were!
     
  22. Yes, and looking at what I assume was the email estimate that he provided, it states that they are responsible for providing the 394 Olds core with all pulleys etc...so, maybe a lawyer can work with that to get you some satisfaction. Good luck, I really do hope you're able to get this worked out.

    As another side edit, it's apparent that you're PO'ed about this (as I would be also). But steering anger towards those that provide input/comment to your thread might be a bit misguided. Your energy/anger needs to be focused on the vendor that did you wrong.
     
    verno30, Thor1, rc57 and 17 others like this.
  23. birdman1
    Joined: Dec 6, 2012
    Posts: 777

    birdman1
    Member
    from USA

    glad i can build my own engines.!!
     
  24. Hate to hear these stories of guys getting burned like this. And people wonder why guys bolt in a crate small block and call it done.
     
  25. Hombre
    Joined: Aug 22, 2008
    Posts: 980

    Hombre
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    OK Guys we now have heard one side of this story. It has been reported here than someone on the board sent these guys a E-Mail so that might respond with there version. Since his information is so prominently displayed in many places, quite a lot just on this thread. I also tried to call, no answer, and sent a e-mail to them asking for a response. It will be interesting to see if they do in fact respond.

    And to Vern 1963 the OP on this thread: OK Vern you have said your piece, pretty much everyone who reads your version of this crappy deal agree's with you and that you got screwed. So what is next? Are you going to keep this going as long as the moderators allow it to be up? Will just airing this in public so to speak avenge your damage, and your honor? Or are you going to actually do something about this?

    I mean you are already into this deal $13,500 at least. Seems like if it was me I would be looking at some way to recover some of that money "IF" it is not exactly what you ordered and agreed to.

    I do not have a dog in this fight. Never have done a dime's worth of business with Ross Engines, and don't know the OP Vern 1963. If this deal is as it is portrayed there should be some justice for Vern. I for one certainly hope it does not let this lay, but does something about it...
     
  26. Vern 1963
    Joined: Nov 27, 2013
    Posts: 38

    Vern 1963
    Member
    from Virginia

    Anger has left the building! It’s all about trying to help someone like myself back in 2013 from being taking advantage of! He needs advertisement as to what he is capable of and to be honest what good is a lawyer when a man is broke? You ever heard the saying “you can’t get blood from a turnip”? Well this is the next best thing! I don’t want people being on the losing end such as myself. To some people that’s funny but to others that wasn’t born with a golden spoon in their mouth and trying to build a car living payday to payday it’s not so funny! No anger just preventive maintenance!
     
    INVISIBLEKID and bchctybob like this.
  27. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 1,484

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Have you called a lawyer? He might say he has no money but i bet that's bullshit. He has assets. And if a lawyer will take the case then you can sue for your money back plus court cost and legal fees. Sometimes you have to wreck the truck to get the insurance money to pay the truck payment
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  28. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 1,432

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    I have skin in the game, hoping for the best
     
  29. I 'll just keep my 2cents worth to myself.
     
  30. Vern 1963
    Joined: Nov 27, 2013
    Posts: 38

    Vern 1963
    Member
    from Virginia

    Yes SIR!! I think this should stay at the top of the board for everyone to see! You see I’ve done my homework and I am well aware of his situation! I’m aware of his assets and his father’s assets. I know they incorporated a couple years ago. I know just about anything you want to know about him so don’t think I’m coming here to blow smoke!!! I’m here for a reason!!!
     
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