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Hot Rods Beware of Last Refuge 1932 - 1934 Ford Bed

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 34 ford pick-up, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. Camm
    Joined: Sep 22, 2005
    Posts: 590

    Camm
    Member

    This guy, Norm has been bad news for years.
     
  2. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 5,816

    A Boner
    Member

    He got screwed with the auction money he got*.....you got screwed with the product he delivered. The shipping costs seem legit. The bed looks like a $275.00 bed. Sell it on Craigslist and order a $3500.00 bed from Mac Hill.

    *Should set a reserve
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
    da34guy likes this.
  3. $um Fun
    Joined: Dec 13, 2008
    Posts: 534

    $um Fun
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    Why don't you dispute it on Ebay? Open a Fraud claim with paypal? Depending on your activity and rating they will go pass the usual 30 days.
     
    loudbang and INVISIBLEKID like this.
  4. he said his factory was big enough to drag race cars in,BUT he didn't say how big the cars are !!! R Cs???
     
    loudbang likes this.
  5. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,459

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    Lets see....
    Mmmmmmnnnnnn.
    A good repro bed runs around 2,750 bucks complete....
    You bought one for 275 incomplete.....
    275 is an unrealistic number for a quality piece yet, he sold it and you bought it.

    This simply comes down to.....
    You get what you pay for.
    How much would it cost to make a slab sided rat rod bed? 200 bucks?.....more???
     
  6. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 6,950

    krylon32
    Alliance Vendor
    from Nebraska

    I'm not a Last refuge fan as he jacked me around several years ago. I did finally get the 2 beds I had ordered and paid for in advance plus freight after nearly a year and they were never shipped but I was given the option that if I wanted them I could meet him at the interstate 50 miles from home or wait until he was in the area again sometime. I went and got them as I needed one for a project. In his defense one was a 60 inch bed for a 32 Ford and the beads on the sides, tailgate and front panel were very nice, and accurate as the fender fit in the bead as it should. Also the custom 36 inch bed had nice beads on the sides, front and tailgate. It was mid winter and they were just thrown in the back of a pickup and exposed to the weather and highway grime which I had to clean off to prevent further rust. I suspect you got some throw aways because of the winning bid price. I've received seconds from another company when I ordered complete bodies for assembly at my shop. Seems to be the way some companies roll?
     
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  7. mantuajohn
    Joined: May 3, 2009
    Posts: 953

    mantuajohn
    Member

    At least you got the bed. Ordered a frame from Norb years ago and he F___ me good. A thousand excuses. Never delivered. Buyer beware of this joker.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  8. kasselyn29
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 214

    kasselyn29
    Member

    Like I said I don't think you got scammed, watch a couple David Gardner Videos and fix the bed you got an unbelievable smoking deal on. Anyone wants to drop off model a bed kit at my house for $550 the cash will be waiting leave the beads out for all I care.
     
  9. proartguy
    Joined: Apr 13, 2009
    Posts: 466

    proartguy
    Member
    from Sparks, NV

    Good luck with the auction site or Paypal. That feedback can mean nothing in disputed cases and he can say you got your item. It might be that some vendors improve their product or delivery, it seems that seldom happens.
     
  10. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,153

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Norbert is capable of good work and is not a fool.
    He is a nice guy when just met outside business, but his acts with respect to dealing with buyers while once excusable, have now become indefensible over time and sadly the time he spends driving and delivering parts to customers would be better spent in his workshop doing a good job and delivery items on time.

    I've been a customer of his in the distant past now and have purchased well made products from him, I have experienced the difficulties of receiving parts on time and I have met him personally.
    He had always come good in the end for me, but there were moments when it was touch and go.

    I just wish he could change his game plan and start being more customer focused, time wise and consistent.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
    loudbang and Stogy like this.
  11. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 18,146

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If an individual...Hamber or otherwise makes a product and markets it using images that show it to be near flawless and advertise as very good quality...it should be.

    If you auction and it has no reserve whether it goes for $10 or $1000 is should be your own standard high quality product...he didn't stipulate that if the bidding went below this the product shipped would be a second...I am sure this would affect the outcome but his gameplan in place isn't any better either.

    If it is a substandard quality for whatever reason it should be advertised as just that.

    This fella is putting his reputation on the line and it may be time to rethink his strategy as alluded.

    It may very well be to late and that's to bad but as a businessman you call the shots and that could backfire.

    He can still turn this around at his expense.

    It's amazing it's actually being defended.

    One more thing everyone get PayPal going here and protect your hard earned dollars...by giving you protection against crooked marketing.
     
    Rich S., loudbang and rust runner like this.
  12. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,144

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    The seller got "screwed" because he screwed himself by listing the item with no reserve.

    He salvaged the deal by telling the buyer, that because he bought the item for such a low price he was not going to ship it, but deliver it personally. When the buyer stated he already paid $240 for shipping, the seller tried to cancel the deal. Buyer declined, but agreed on the personal delivery. He was flexible. Still, the seller stuck it to him.

    Because the seller didn't have to package and ship the item, he collected $515 for the sale (on an item he retails for $750). The only "shipping costs" to him were a side trip on his way to Bakersfield.

    So far so good for both sides-same net purchase price for the buyer, yet the seller gains considerably. Lucky for him the buyer resides between CO. and Bakersfield. Where it gets shitty is where the seller delivers an inferior piece as if to send a message "I'll show this guy he can't get away with winning this for $275. Here's what I'll give him for that kind of money". That makes him feel better so it's the right business decision to follow through with? He's lucky the buyer wasn't present at delivery to inspect the parts. Imagine Brookville swiping your card for a quarter panel at Hershey, then pulling something like this out of the trailer and handing it to you!?

    When a seller auctions at no reserve, they gamble. We sometimes see no reserve cars at auction, hammer for way less than expected. That's the chance the seller takes because they chose a no reserve auction. They shouldn't make things more palatable by taking it out on the buyer who bid in good faith.
    The seller here should have placed a reserve, or perhaps start the auction at $500 with a 'buy it now' for $750.
     
    Stogy, Nostrebor, loudbang and 3 others like this.
  13. VANDENPLAS
    Joined: Dec 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,928

    VANDENPLAS
    Member

    Hot rods ya he’ll is right.

    Was the bed a great deal?..... yes
    Even with the inferior workmanship?..... sure
    But it was not represented that way. So the seller is wrong and when you add in the “ extra shipping costs” he’s not out much compared to full list.
    I call shenanigans!

    From the sounds of it the buyer seems easy going and may have taken the bed “ as is” if he had known what it actually was.

    Bait and switch!!!

    Not cool. I used to deal with a few suppliers like this that claimed fully rebuilt hydraulics, motors, engines etc...it only took one bad dealing with bullshit excuses to cut them off.. what’s the old saying?

    Fool me once...... I’ll brake your fucking knees!!!! No No wait that MY version!! Anyways not cool
     
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  14. 34 ford pick-up
    Joined: Nov 5, 2011
    Posts: 27

    34 ford pick-up
    Member
    from california

    Hot Rods Ta Hell ... You Hit it Spot On ... I quit replying on here because many seem to feel I got what was coming to me for the simple reason I happened to win the Auction below the normal selling price. For what it's worth , I reviewed the feedback on ebay for Last Refuge and checked out some of the more recent posts on this site about his product and thought everything would be fine.

    I even put my max bid at 700 on ebay because I was willing to pay for what I thought would be a decent Bed. I don't need a 3500 bed for my daily driver ( I will need one for my 32 pickup I'm getting ready to start building , so Mac's will be my first and only call ). I simply wanted a bed I could throw on my 34 and run for a while ... but people feel I got what I paid for.

    I didn't know that the bidder under me was only going to bid 270 leaving me the winner at 275.
    I didn't know the seller had No plans to ship it on time like the auction said
    I didn't know the quality would be inferior

    I will say that Norb from Last Refuge text me today and told me that those bed sides were Not Blems and that they were made the night before he left to head to Bakersfield. So obviously they were made in a Hurry and when I called and spoke with him 2 weeks ago and he told me he hadn't shipped the Bed yet because I won the auction too cheap and he wanted to keep the 240 shipping money and hand deliver it ... * he was obviously lying to me, because the Bed hadn't even been built at that point*

    All in all, I'm over it ... its only a few hundred bucks to me. I only wanted to warn others about the looming danger that "could" strike them should they decide to order from Last Refuge. Many on here in other previous posts are defending Norb saying they had a positive experience dealing with him, I simply had a negative one and for that fellow HAMBers Feel I got what I deserve for winning the Auction at a lower price ........
    *** All I was trying to do was warn others to be careful***
     
  15. 34 ford pick-up
    Joined: Nov 5, 2011
    Posts: 27

    34 ford pick-up
    Member
    from california

    You are 100% correct Stogy .... I don't know why my attempts to warn fellow HAMBers about this seller has ended up with many feeling they need to defend Last Refuge because I happened to Win the Auction at a low price. Maybe they were the ones I was bidding against.
     
  16. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,153

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    In the early days, I use to kind of defend him, in the hope that he may come good and after all he did have some happy customers.
    At his best, his product was pretty darn good for the price, yet he lacked consistency and reliability.
    Bull shit only works for so long...

    His actions are indefensible in my view and you definitely deserve better treatment.
    Last Refuge as a business was well positioned to service a good number of us hot rodders not looking for a top end product and it could have been a great relationship.
    However, even though Last Refuge was given the benefit of a lot of doubt it has managed to fail its market badly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
    loudbang and Stogy like this.
  17. kasselyn29
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 214

    kasselyn29
    Member

    It would be cool to see you fix the bed so it was usable, and post a few pics on the build. Really feel you can do it, with a small amount of effort. Spend a couple hours on it, check out u-tube, you can fix or make beads with a blunt chisel a small hammer ect. use a piece of pipe to fix the radius on the corners. who on here has bought a patch panel that even remotely fits, few and far between.
     
  18. Thanks for the heads up. Hope you can get a resolution.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  19. The HAMB could use a "Caveat Emptor" compilation of threads on his type of shoddy work and business practices. I realize that you can do a search, but something like this would consolidate it. Poster would have to furnish pics or other proof to prevent hearsay or slander. I would nominate Vintage Glass, Lawrenceville, GA! I feel your pain......
     
    loudbang likes this.
  20. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,740

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    As the saying goes when given a lemon make lemonade,see what you can do to make it they way you like it.
     
  21. hank100
    Joined: Aug 31, 2010
    Posts: 11

    hank100
    Member
    from san diego

    I too got screwed by last refuge. like many others didn't spend any time looking up his background. It took a month to get my bed and was upset about it. But at least I had it. Started to assemble it. The bed sides and the front bed panel fit perfect. The original tailgate a bed sides fit perfectly. But the rear channel doesn't have even close to the same radius. I called him up and he said he has made thousands of beds and have "never had a problem". He basically said I had the only blem he has encountered. He said send it back and he will fix it. After reading all of this I'm just going to lick my wounds and fix this 20181022_160720.jpeg 1540250331198.jpeg 1540250301584.jpeg

    Sent from my SM-N950U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    loudbang, lumpy 63 and Stogy like this.
  22. ^^^Wow, not even close!
     
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  23. 34 ford pick-up
    Joined: Nov 5, 2011
    Posts: 27

    34 ford pick-up
    Member
    from california

    Well, it seems like there is a vast amount of woe stories out there about Last Refuge, Sorry that happened to you ... it appears the quality of his product fluctuates among his clientele. I just got home from work and decided to take another look at everything when I noticed he didn't even finish the bends on the front header panel where it sandwiches the front of the Bed Side to the stake pocket, just One More thing I have to Fix now . He Must have Really Spit this Bed out in a Hurry.
    Like you I'm am going to take my Lumps and see what I can do with this thing.
    20181022_163736.jpg
     
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  24. 34 ford pick-up
    Joined: Nov 5, 2011
    Posts: 27

    34 ford pick-up
    Member
    from california

    I agree, Having all the threads together would make it easy for someone to jump online and do a quick search with photos to back everything up. I ,like many others, don't have hours to sit on the computer each night ... too busy working for a living and trying to get my Rods built around the Honey do list.
     
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  25. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 5,816

    A Boner
    Member

    Not trying to defend Last Refuge......but there are a lot of smaller shops that have fluctuating quality issues. It depends on who is doing the actual work. The turnover rate is quite high in those kind of shops. Things go good, until the good guy leaves, and if a new hire isn't very good, the quality goes down the crapper......until hopefully replaced with another good craftsmen. The screwed up pickup bed looks like it is the product of an inexperienced new hire on his first day. He probably worked at McDonald's the week before.
    Putting a bad product out the door is a big mistake for any business!
     
    Stogy likes this.
  26. Sick Pay Pal on him..... They don't jack around with mis-represented items regardless of price.
    They'll lock his account, and pull your money back...... AND- tell them shipping back is on his ass!
     
    loudbang likes this.
  27. CudaChick1968
    Joined: Dec 11, 2012
    Posts: 108

    CudaChick1968
    Member

    It isn't only 30 or 45 days anymore. Now buyers can file a dispute claim within 180 days -- six months! -- from the date of purchase.
     
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  28. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 18,146

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't believe this was a paypal transaction...

    That by no means dictates justifying poor quality or service however it takes away a level of protection to the buyers.

    I did suggest that it is a really wise method of dealing in this global auction environment for all members in this thread earlier.
     
  29. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 4,639

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    The company name would have been a warning to me, Last Refuge. Like the very last place you’d buy anything because you couldn’t find it anywhere else.

    Look at it this way, it’s nowhere close to original, so I’d try to make it presentable and maybe add some more details and call it a custom bed. Most folks will never know the difference.
     
  30. 34 ford pick-up
    Joined: Nov 5, 2011
    Posts: 27

    34 ford pick-up
    Member
    from california

    The Kicker is Norbert is the Owner of the Last Refuge and it was Norbert himself who loaded it into the back of his pickup and drove from Colorado to California with it in the back of his truck to Hand Deliver the Bed on his way to bakersfield .... I find it Near Impossible that he didn't "Notice" the condition it was in.
    Just like you said, *Putting a bad product out the door is a big mistake for any business!*
    I can only imagine the amount of business he has lost over the past years with all the Negative Content out there ... Too Bad
     
    loudbang, fiftyv8 and Stogy like this.

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