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Beware! More bangers boys B.S. & Monthly meeting

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Dirtyest Devil, Feb 28, 2008.

  1. Rizhto,

    Welcome to the HAMB- there are a number of guys that can help you with that question, and this is the right thread for it!

    Also, I've been trying to contact NWVS for months now with no reply, so don't feel bad... does ANYONE have better info on contacting them???

    Lastly, if you don't have any luck with your engine, you could theoretically put an early six in your '28 and remain period (please don't shoot me guys) as the six was introduced the next year...
     
  2. Rizhto
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 80

    Rizhto
    Member

    Yes, I could use the Chevy six and those would be easy to find. However, there are two buts. Firstly, I'm stubborn and I want to use the two port four. I already have five more or less complete engines plus one single port. secondly, Finnish laws in car building are strict. I basically have to keep at least 50% of the original car, and because I'm not using the original body, I have to keep the chassis to avoid five figures vehicle tax. I have some ideas with the car, but I need to find the parts first to go further in plans. Replacement pistons for slightly higher compression, fully pressured oiling how-to and carburetor settings (like 81's?) for example are things I would be very interested. I'm looking for moderate performance and good fuel economy to the car, not maximum power. I'm going to drive it for long distances. You see, as I'm living in Oulu, nearest decent size towns are hundreds of kilometers away.
     
  3. Gotcha!

    Don't know offhand of any aftermarket cams, etc, but they may be out there. You may also find that adapting a more modern distributor, a better carb (and fabbing an intake) will help as well.
    What body are you going to use?
     
  4. Low Fat 38
    Joined: Mar 9, 2007
    Posts: 75

    Low Fat 38
    Member
    from Norton,Ma

    Hi Bill, Hey I have got to say "Thank You so much for posting the Photos of your build up on the 29 RPU. I have to ask if you did any other modifications to the chassis. What trans did you use and did it need an aditional crossmember. I like the unsplit look of the front wishbones are they from the '33 as was the axle. Also what did you use for a rear axle. are you using the torge tube from the "A" with original torque arms.Thank you for you time. Sweet looking RPU!!
     
  5. Rand Man
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 3,391

    Rand Man
    Member

    Hey guys, I'm considering joining the banger club. I've got my eye on a Stock Model A Ford rolling chassis. "It turns over. . . has been garaged for over twenty years. It was a complete car, just took the body off" That's about all the guy knows. I've been told that if it turns over, it's likely it can run. It seems to be all there. I've got a few different A and T cowls. I could build a speedster body for it until I get my '28 Sport Coupe body rebuilt.

    Questions: How much trouble am I getting into? I know none of you know what mechanical shape this one is in, but in general how long have you fussed with one before you hear it sputter back to life. What should I look for before I buy? Is it much trouble to put a '29 body on a '31 frame?

    My initial goal is to get in running in stock form and putt around town a bit. I can then hot rod it as money and time permits. I think that is the original, traditional hot rod formula. Start with a running stocker and move up from there.
     
  6. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,998

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Cool.
    Most of us start there...
    Sounds great.
    Loads of trouble. :D They knock, they bang, they splutter....and they're great fun!
    The frames are the same.

    Just do it. Welcome along!
     
  7. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,388

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    I have one of the new 97's on the way and will be removing the Mooneyes EFI off of my '31 Model A powered Lakester. If somebody out there is interested in a smoking good deal on this unit, PM me.
     
  8. Rizhto
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 80

    Rizhto
    Member

    I'm not actually interested that much on aftermarket parts. I'm more of into doing things than bolt on performance. Machining is not a problem. That's what the friends are for.:rolleyes:
    So I'll probably stick on the original cam or send it to the cam shop that makes racing cams. They'll do anything you wish based on the stock one. Just as an example.
    Carburetors of course have to be found. Carter RXO's just are not suitable in this use. I would have a change to acquire a couple of Stromberg 81 basket cases, but the question is, is it possible to get all the parts except the bodies as aftermarket? 97's have all the parts available, but how is the 81?
    About the body. I have this

    [​IMG]

    and the rest will be what the son of a carpenter is capable of. :D
     
  9. The early hot rodders ran Olds 3 port heads on their Chevy 4's I believe that the parts or kits are available for the "81"'s
     
  10. I put a Ford F100 trans in it, 4 speed with 4 th gear overdrive. Had to shorten drive shaft and torque tube 4 1/2" and trim center cross member to clear U joint housing. Also had to modify brake cross shaft. I have read of other conversions with this trans that don't require as many modifications but I purchased mine as a kit. The front wishbone is model "A". I installed a Kiwi quick change center section in the "A" rear end, this involved further shortening of and having the drive shaft splined. I am running 32 34 brakes, front only required using 32 34 spring perches but rear was more involved as 32 34 radius rods don't attach the same as the "A"'s I had to extend the brake operating shaft to clear radius rods and relieve the backing plate to clear where radius rods attach. The brakes were about the same as converting to juice which wouldn't require modifying brake cross shaft. I also installed a 56 steering box.
     


  11. My car sat since 62, and the engine was even stuck (distributor was froze). After we figured that out (rocked the car back and forth in gear to try to free it, broke distributor) we put a new dist in and had it running in an hour. They are REAL fun and pretty darn cheap too ;)
     
  12. Rizhto
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 80

    Rizhto
    Member

    Olds three-port is Rare with the big R. It would be The Thing for the Chevy four banger, but I'm not even dreaming of finding such a piece. I know one available 1923 cone clutch engine, which would be ideal block for such a head. I've also heard that -28 dual port has even slightly better flow than older Olds head. Dual port head has also better rocker arm ratio and more developed oiling.
    I guess I can buy the carburetors if this fellow dares to sell'em.
     
  13. CoalTownKid
    Joined: Mar 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,024

    CoalTownKid
    Member

    NICE!
    Workin' with junk to make gold!,...I like it!!! Seriously! I know what its like to work with what you have availible,....its tough but I believe ANYTHING is possible with a lot of heart and passion!
    I hope all works out for you...keep us updated!
     
  14. Jonny69
    Joined: Jul 24, 2007
    Posts: 275

    Jonny69
    Member
    from England

    Don't know if any of you guys remember my little engine build but it went kaboom on the way home about 3 weeks ago :D

    Currently watching some +30 oversize pistons on eBay and I'm going to get the rods re-metalled while I'm at it. Apparently can't convert it to shells because the rods are metalled up the sides as well, so a bit of added expense but peace of mind and should help the oil pressure ;)

    Just trying to decide if I can justify getting the block skimmed down so the pistons come up proud but it'll need the valve seats recut if I do that...
     
  15. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Rizhto-


    I have a Chev speedster with a '27 Chev engine, and have both two and three port heads. I have not tested one against the other, but I've got to believe that the people who say the two port is better don't know what their talking about. The two ports in the '28 head dump into large chambers between the two adjoining intake valves, then neck back down at the valve ports- just the thing to get the fuel to drop out of suspension- in fact Chevy put “honeycomb” restrictors in the intake ports to try to keep this from taking place. The three port has smooth, flowing, modern looking intake ports. This is what I run. The Chevy dizzy with centrifugal advance (27-28) is fine for a road job. I would not over carburate- a pair of 1 1/4” SU's is about all you need- I have this setup, but run one 1 3/8” updraft most of the time for better low speed response. My cam is 30-70-70-30. One downside to the three port head is that you have to cut the rocker stands off the head to move the rocker shaft over for 1 ½ – 1 rockers- but you donut want th e '28 rockers in any event, as they are not up to the job in a stock “28, let alone one one with increased valve spring pressure (a must) and higher revs. Longer rods ( Model A Ford - + 1/8”, or Durant +3/8[?]), and pistons with higher wrist pin to crown dimension (Chevy 261 cid truck 6 cylinder (if you can find them) or Zollner #153, Hercules 3 3/4”- (expensive) pistons, after boring the block to +.060” over. I made my own pistons, even higher (with Ford A rods) to get about 7-1/4-1 compression. I welded counterweights to the crankshaft, drilled it for oil pressure to the rods, and had it balanced. Use a late '50's Chev 6 oil pump- the four cylinder is trash. Cut flywheel to about 22 lbs, and modern clutch (I used Volvo, and Volvo transmission) I made my own rod and main bearings, but failing a machinist who likes to work for free, you are probably stuck with poured babbitt ( OK for a road job if done properly). Use modern valves and springs (about 80# seated pressure) worst thing about the whole project is that any 4 cylinder Chevy parts that you end up using are crap material. Any other questions PM me.


    Herb Kephart
     
  16. Rizhto
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 80

    Rizhto
    Member

    Thanks Herb. Great experience based knowledge, just what I asked for. I've understood that there is nothing much you can do for the two port exhaust. And if you have converted the rocker arm ratio for the three-port-head, the this head is, as you said, better. I'll save your message and contact information into my personal Chevy archives. It'll take a few years before I'm actually able to start the building, but I will definitely be in touch with you later.
    The philosophy of the project is 30's style racer, so I'm trying to use only prewar parts, at least on the visible areas. Modern clutch, valve and rocker assemblies suit fine to me. I can get some machining done, not free, but "friend price". for example I will change the valve seats and valves for modern unleaded tolerant versions. Here I could easily but the bigger ones if they fit.
    What you said about the carbureting, I agree. Hence I'm not looking for 97's. I was planing to but two 81's with progressive linkage. So the secondary carburetor will join the fun only with the heavy footing. SU's would be another good option. I have a Triumph Herald, which had a single Stromberg 150 in it, and I really liked the characteristics.
     
  17. Rizhto
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 80

    Rizhto
    Member

    I will inform you, but I need to start the project first, and that will take a couple of years. I have house and doctoral dissertation under construction at the moment and and my youngest daughter is only three months old. At the moment I'm only just looking for correct parts.
    I actually have not decided yet about the body type. I have two options, a boat tail or very simple box tail roadster. Anyway it'll be a light type, no doors etc. I will also build it over the wood frame like the Fisher bodies were originally done.
     
  18. CoalTownKid
    Joined: Mar 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,024

    CoalTownKid
    Member

    Building a boat tail then? Sounds great! Definitley listen to Herb,..he really knows his stuff! I was invited to visit his shop last year and saw what he was working on,...he knows his stuff and will be able to help you out with your questions on Chevys and other things!
     
  19. Corn coupe
    Joined: Jan 7, 2008
    Posts: 356

    Corn coupe
    Member
    from CZ

    Fitted this setup to my banger this week. Just got to work out how to set the thing up. Definately more go up those long hills and better accelleration though. Anyone else any experiance with twin updrafts? Also Fitted a set of bent spoke KH's - 600's up front and 750's at the rear and got rid of my landeau bars!![​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  20. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,998

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Wow....Twin updraughts! Go for it, fella!
     
  21. Corn coupe
    Joined: Jan 7, 2008
    Posts: 356

    Corn coupe
    Member
    from CZ

    Thanks tryining tooooooooo.......................
     
  22. Are we going to see you in the Banger Meltdown this year?
     
  23. Corn coupe
    Joined: Jan 7, 2008
    Posts: 356

    Corn coupe
    Member
    from CZ

    Possibly, when is it? Just need to get them setup - easier said than done with no real adjustments?
     
  24. The main thing is to get them balanced the same as would apply to down drafts or draughts, using a Unisyn or a piece of tubing as done with SU's. Just back off the idle screw on 1 carburetor and set idle speed with remaining carburetor then balance flow with throttle linkage connecting the carburetors. Just use the idle speed crew on one carburetor to control idle speed. If you already know this you will realize that it is about all you can do unless you want to fiddle with the jet sizes. Or possibly figure out a way to adjust both GAV's.
     
  25. Pierre H
    Joined: Feb 11, 2007
    Posts: 59

    Pierre H
    Member
    from france

    Hello
    so as march is the month to joint the banger familly I have to ask : Can I play with you please !!!
    So that's it, I jump in the banger world a few months ago, after spending some time in the flathead V8 planet. The 40 year old crisis make me buy a Cragar head (expensive, but a lot cheaper the a Porsche) and I don't want to ruin everything with "it's a so basic engine, I can do it myself without asking guys who knows" attitude.
    I've found a suppose to be good B engine, I'll strip it in a couple weeks, and decide after where I can go (insert ? full flow ? cams ? V8 flywheel ? Crankshaft Counterweights ? ....)
    In a short one : how to drop the head from my desk to my engine
     

    Attached Files:

  26. Artiki
    Joined: Feb 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,998

    Artiki
    Member
    from Brum...

    Hey Pierre, bonjour! Is that a Dan Price head? Looks awesome. Can't wait to see that one fitted.

    Here's my update for the second half of the month. Pulled the speedster body off my chassis and dropped the T tourer on. Not mounted yet, and will need to massage the pedals somewhat, but pretty happy so far.
    [​IMG]
     
  27. kelgar50
    Joined: May 29, 2006
    Posts: 180

    kelgar50
    Member
    from socal

    Hello im thinking about messing around with 4 bangers and have access to a couple for free.I guess this the place to be for the banger stuff.So here goes any input would be great.
    The first banger is from what I think is what left of a T.
    The engine is still hooked up to the tranny with is complete with clutch and all the pedals.All tied to a badly bent chassis and sitting near by is the rearend.
    Question is it worth it to try and do something with it?Maybe a speedster or something?

    Next engine is a little out there but still a 4 banger.
    It is a Allis-Chalmers model B or C so im told.It is gas powered and also a OHV engine with a magneto for ignition.I have also been told it is 125 ci and rated @ 60hp.I have checked on rebuild kits and they are pretty cheap...$300-400.
    Im thinking it would be something fun and different for sure.Also like the radiator shell it has.
    I would apperciate any input or oppinons on the 2.
    I would like to build something fun just for buzzing around town.
    Thanks
     
  28. Nostalgia Drags, June/July and hot Rod Drags in September.

    Looking good!
     
  29. kelgar50
    Joined: May 29, 2006
    Posts: 180

    kelgar50
    Member
    from socal

    Here is a pic of the Aliss-Chalmers engine.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And here is what I think is a T engine
    [​IMG]
     
  30. Hey Kelgar50, welcome! IMO you should forget about those free motors for now, they will cost you plenty in the long run. Getting them hooked up to the road may also be aggravating. Do you have a car,(body/ chassis)?
     

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