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Technical Best was to increase performance out of a stock engine. What to check? (Any engine)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 55pack, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. 55pack
    Joined: Jan 30, 2019
    Posts: 36

    55pack

    Hey guys, I’m in need of some advice. What’s the best way to get the performance out of a stock 1950s engine? What are the first things you check? What’s the items most people overlook?

    Thanks again !

    [​IMG]


    55 Clipper
    55 Patrican
    55 Panama
    (Packard)
     
  2. G-son
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,277

    G-son
    Member
    from Sweden

    Are we talking basic adjustments and minor updates, or more extensive tuning such as increasing compression?
     
  3. 55pack
    Joined: Jan 30, 2019
    Posts: 36

    55pack

    I’m looking to get the most out of a stock Packard 320. I will be using this for a hill Climb competition. I’m look for advice on things I can tune and still keep it stock.


    55 Clipper
    55 Patrican
    55 Panama
    (Packard)
     
  4. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,661

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Make sure the carb fully opens
     
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  5. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 5,115

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    Clean every thing,,check timing,plugs,AN GOOD GAS. Pass that;;,take every thing you can out of car an leve it in garage,spair,jack,hubcaps ,no one ride with you ,every thing,pump tires up to about 10lbs extra to drop rolling drag if it is almost straight up hill,but not if it's has lot of turns.
     
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  6. 55pack
    Joined: Jan 30, 2019
    Posts: 36

    55pack



    What’s rolling drag? Could you explain?


    55 Clipper
    55 Patrican
    55 Panama
    (Packard)
     
  7. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,625

    Atwater Mike
    Member

    Turn pistons around backwards, (point arrow toward rear of engine) Wrist pin offset (to make for quiet idle when cold) now utilized for more efficient connecting rod angle.
    Undoubtedly the naysayers will deny this, but this trick alone moved me into a lower E.T.
    (292 Y block, 440 Dodge wedge)
     
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  8. Bearcat_V8
    Joined: Sep 21, 2011
    Posts: 386

    Bearcat_V8
    Member
    from Dexter, MI

    The first thing I would do for optimum performance is to have the carb rebuilt by a professional who know them. The second would be a good tune-up with all new parts (plugs, wires, etc). I would tune it with a dwell meter and a timing light to make sure it was perfect.
    The last thing I would do is make sure the carb has plenty of fresh air. Either remove or modify the air cleaner or fabricate a duct out of dryer duct-hose to route air directly to the carb or air cleaner.
     
    55pack likes this.
  9. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    He's referring to the resistance of the tire rolling on the pavement. Increased air pressure in the tires will have reduced resistance to rolling; but that may negatively effect handling, hence the warning about if there are turns on the hill climb.
     
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  10. Bearcat_V8
    Joined: Sep 21, 2011
    Posts: 386

    Bearcat_V8
    Member
    from Dexter, MI

    oh yeah..., and a good free flowing dual exhaust
     
  11. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    I would say you need to start with the basics, i.e. ignition timing and carburetor adjustments. Some would probably add a compression check as a first thing to do, to identify the condition of the engine to start with. Some would add a leak down test to that. But if you do nothing else, at least set the timing and adjust the idle air screws on the carb. From there, IF the compression check shows acceptable compression, than advance curves in the distributor, fine tuning of the carb, and free flowing exhaust, proper clutch adjustment, throttle linkage, brake adjustments, just get it into an optimum state of tune.
     
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  12. Most people today overlook and undervalue the basic tuneups.
     
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  13. PackardV8
    Joined: Jun 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,170

    PackardV8
    Member

    You need to clarify if you're limiting the request to external tuning (plug wires) or willing to do internal modifications (reversing pistons).

    FWIW, that '55 Packard was built with valve spring retainers which were too soft. If run hard enough to float the valves, the keepers will pull through the retainers and drop a valve. You absolutely, positively have to check your retainers; stroke the edge of one with a file. If the file cuts, they're soft. If the file skates, they're the later, hardened retainers. The retainers can be changed with the heads on. If making the change to hardened retainers, also throw a .050" shim under the valve springs. Most will be below seat pressure spec.

    For racing, block the heat riser passage in the center of the intake manifold with plates from .050" stainless.

    Packards like being run with an extra 1/2-quart of oil above full mark.

    The 320"s all had single exhausts. Dual kits are available from several vendors.

    Finally, what transmission? The TwinUltramatic does not like hard running.

    Anything which slows the car. The single most important thing you can do is spin the wheels and listen for brake shoe drag. If you feel drag or hear whispers, back off the brake adjustment until it goes away. After loosening the brakes, take the first stop carefully until you and the system gets used to the feel.

    jack vines, who in 1961 was blamed for ruining the TwinUltramatic in his parents. '56 Hudson Hornet with the Packard V8.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  14. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Does it have solid lifters? Make sure those are dialed in with correct lash. Ignition timing, the mechanical advance, has to be in good shape. Make sure it's not "slow" or retarded timing at any given RPM or running configuration, from idle to cruise to wide open throttle.
     
  15. Put a 250hp Nitrous system on it. Ignite at full throttle, up a hill, at maximum summer temperatures. :) Be sure to film for peak value of HAMB content, please. :D
     
  16. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 7,589

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    :D :D :D
     
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  17. I'm not a mechanic but I would pick ignition first.
    Induction second, then exhaust.
     
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  18. Don't forget the brakes, the faster you go, the more important they are.
     
  19. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Timing, air cleaner, maybe dual exhaust.
    Get a timing light and tuneup tach...disassemble distributor, clean everything in timing, very lightly lube. TEMPORARILY disable vac advance, slowly rev up engine and list degrees of advance by RPM up to where advance stops. Put your chart in a notebook to help guide experimentation. Car can PROBABLY take faster advance...
    Mr gasket forgot to make an advance kit for Packard...Ford and Mopar had fairly small springs, GM tended to big fat ones. Kits are dirt cheap, get all that seem close to fight size. lighter springs give faster advance, and you can use a mismatched pair for small changes...put on the lightest that fit, give it a quick accel test and listen for pinging, repeat with whatever seems promising until you go mad from working on distributor! When the thing jumps off the line without pinging rest. Re-test with a couple of degrees extra initial. Go by feel...too much advance directly shuts off power and can be very destructive too, and can happen without any pinging! If you don't feel more scoot, crank it back.
     
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  20. I'd start with a set of headers and a free flowing exhaust. After a solid baseline and a proper tune-up of course.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  21. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    The most overlooked item on older engines is a compression test. Probably on newer engines as well.

    If you are going to run it hard, then the valves/valve springs/retainers ALL need work BEFORE you start making adjustments or add-on performance.

    My opinion, others will differ.

    Jon.
     
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  22. G-son
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,277

    G-son
    Member
    from Sweden

    Really want ignition and carb correctly adjusted? Have it done on a rolling road dyno, or at the very least use one of those electronic hp meters using acceleration and car weight to calculate power. Nothing says the engine will run best on factory settings (from long ago, for fresh engines, on different fuel than today...) will be correct on your motor today, so actually testing the power output as it gets adjusted is the only way to get it perfect.
     
  23. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Suggest you start with a compression test and oil pressure test so you know where you stand. Go on to do a careful tuneup and as Blowby said, check the carb is opening all the way. It is subtle details like this that make the difference, and I am NOT kidding. Smokey Yunick said that after he built an engine, a careful tuneup on the dynamometer could pick up an extra 30 or 40 HP practically for free, just with some adjustments and carb jet changes.

    If the engine has 50,000 miles on it, best to stop there. Hop up an old motor and it will blow sky high in a month, 9 times out of 10. Before doing a real hop up you want to tear the engine down and rebuild it or at least replace rings, bearings, timing chain, possibly oil pump.

    After that listen to Jack Vines he is the Packard guru.
     
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  24. Kind of related to compression is the timing chain. If it's got a bunch of slack, then the cam will run retarded.
    It needs to be checked, and it's got more than a few degrees of slack, it needs to be replaced.
    That and an actual compression test is where you need to start, before trying to hop it up.
     
    carbking likes this.
  25. There's little things you can do also...

    Most all of these older motors can tolerate more timing, usually up to 5 degrees more. May require higher octane fuel.

    And if it's a solid-lifter motor, you can tighten up the valve clearance to gain a bit of lift. Be sure to check this 'hot' so you don't go too tight. Not recommended for extended driving, but fine for short bursts.
     
  26. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,661

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    My old pal Doug (rip) used to do what he called a "CHP tuneup". Flip the air cleaner top over, creating about a one inch gap. Only on some air cleaners of course.
     

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