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Technical Best sound deadener

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by noyo55, May 29, 2015.

  1. noyo55
    Joined: Apr 25, 2006
    Posts: 79

    noyo55
    Member

    What is the best sound deadener out there now??
     
  2. luckythirteenagogo
    Joined: Dec 28, 2012
    Posts: 1,265

    luckythirteenagogo
    Member

    I guess that would depend on how much you want to spend.
     
  3. I like these, if you stick them in your girlfriends ears you can use them kind of like a bridle when riding horsey! ear-fx-earplugs.jpg
    Sorry couldn't help myself!
    As far as sound deadener in car bodies, it seems everyone has a favorite and prices are all over the map. I plan to use 3/4" pink or blue styrofoam and latex paint filled with hollow spheres. the whole cab on my truck has been fabricated with double wall construction to accommodate this. Yes I may be nuts, but I'm running an extremely noisy Detroit Diesel engine and I want it quiet enough to be able to carry on a conversation in the cab at highway speed. If you are more normal than me, I've got no clue what you should use.
     
    chevyfordman and 270ci like this.
  4. We've had good luck with those roofing/building products like Peel & Seal. Several similar brands out there. Lined my roadster trunk , kick panels, under dash, floor, etc. Put down a couple layers. The car is loud anyway but it seems to stop the drumming and etc. Plan to use it on our current project car too. Used it on my son's 90 Chevy pickup with great results. . Several threads on here about this. Very cost efficient compared to "brand X".
     
    BradinNC and hrm2k like this.

  5. WobbleShaft
    Joined: Jan 6, 2016
    Posts: 18

    WobbleShaft
    Member

    I've used a peel & stick matting from "TP Tools & Equipment". For a whole car, the best buy is the big roll. Its about half the $$ of others. I went with the thicker 3ply version. Buddy used it also and loves it
     
  6. Joliet Jake
    Joined: Dec 6, 2007
    Posts: 506

    Joliet Jake
    Member
    from Jax, FL

  7. flux capacitor
    Joined: Sep 18, 2014
    Posts: 675

    flux capacitor
    Member

    Broke down after trying cheap swap meet stuff n got dynamat. Not affordable at all but it sure seemed to work on one of my ot cars. I packed it into every possible crevice, reminds me of moms new Buick now. Since its my first car & been over 30 years now , what I spend on it doesn't hurt that bad because it gets driven frequently. Dyna Mat for me on something I'm gonna use or keep. Flux
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  8. GeezersP15
    Joined: Dec 4, 2011
    Posts: 555

    GeezersP15
    Member
    from N.E. PA

    Check out this website. A lot of good info here.

    www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
     
  9. Never2low
    Joined: Jan 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,141

    Never2low
    Member

    Seldom am I able to answer technical questions on here, but for once, this falls into my field of expertise.
    In my 20+ years of dabbling in Car audio, I've learned a lot.
    Peal & stick really isn't that effective, but if you're on a budget, and not expecting the moon, it should suffice.

    A lot of good info here; http://store.secondskinaudio.com/how-to-insulate-your-ride/

    The purpose of CLD (butyl backed deadeners like Dynamat) is to deaden panels, eliminating resonance.
    Contrary to popular belief, you only need 20-25% strategically placed coverage, to achieve this.
    It will inadvertently block some noise, but it's not designed to do so.
    MLV (mass loaded vinyl) is the key to sound absorption/blocking.
    Complete coverage is the key.
    It is quite heavy, and does not respond well to most adhesives, but when implemented properly is very effective.
    Virgin MLV is highly recommended, as it will not stink (out gas).
    The downside to MLV is; it is by no means cheap (including shipping).

    Second skin is the benchmark for deadening, unfortunately, they are also the benchmark for pricing.
    Superior product, superior price.

    Here are a couple cheaper, good quality, substitutes.

    MLV; http://www.amazon.com/Loaded-Vinyl-...=1427585168&sr=8-2&keywords=mass+loaded+vinyl

    CLD; http://www.knukonceptz.com/mobile-audio/sound-deadening/kno-knoise-resonance-control/

    This very well maybe more than you're looking to spend, (or more than you need).
    I'm just throwing the info out there, to let people know that there are other options.
    :cool:

    Edit; Ah! Geezer beat me to it, while I peck typed.
     
    oj, 32 Barn Car and GeezersP15 like this.
  10. GEZSFRK
    Joined: Jul 19, 2013
    Posts: 64

    GEZSFRK

    I used some stuff called rattle trap on my impala wagon.....i got off ebay..... HUGE difference
     

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  11. Never2low
    Joined: Jan 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,141

    Never2low
    Member

    Yup! Rattle trap is made by Fatmat.
    It is a very popular/cost effective alternative to the big name stuff.
     
  12. Deuce Daddy Don
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,134

    Deuce Daddy Don
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    3M---Water based---Apply with paint brush.
     
  13. Never2low
    Joined: Jan 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,141

    Never2low
    Member

  14. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,362

    c-10 simplex
    Member

    So i went to the 2nd skins site and they are saying to put down cld first and then mlv. However, if you try to put your original carpet over this, won't this make the door sill plates too high? How is this handled?

    Also, what do i put INSIDE the doors?
     
  15. EW_
    Joined: Apr 10, 2008
    Posts: 82

    EW_
    Member
    from DFW

    Dynamat Xtreme, Stinger Roadkill Expert, or another butyl product by second skin will remain bonded to vertical or roof panels if the surface has been cleaned and the material rolled onto the surface. Tar based material will not remain bonded to vertical or roof panels. Any of the butyl products will work in the doors. Do not put foams, jute, etc inside the door as they can/will retain moisture.

    I do not subscribe to the 20% coverage club. More is better and if you cover 20% the panel will still ring like a gong. I cover it all with Stinger Roadkill Expert and then MLV like Stinger Carpet Pad. The results are amazing.
     
    Never2low likes this.
  16. Never2low
    Joined: Jan 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,141

    Never2low
    Member

    Excellent points, C-10
    The thickness of both MLV and the CLD is right around 1/8", so this will add almost a quarter inch.
    You can expect fitment issues anytime you add material, where it wasn't designed to be.
    The nice thing about the older vehicles we're used to, is the inner door skin/door cards are usually pretty flat. More curves makes for more complications.
    I would suggest cutting the MLV and affixing it to the back of the door card. (some adjustment to the clips may be needed)
    Test fit it, and if there isn't sufficient room for the CLD, it can be placed on the outside(facing the outer door skin) of the inner skin.
    It can also be adhered to the inside of the outer skin, if panel resonance is present.
    As far as floors go, some door sill unevenness may be unavoidable. Thou it shouldn't be enough to cause issues with door closure, mainly cosmetic. You can cut the MLV/CLD a bit short, so it's just the carpet that goes under the sill.
    Most of the vehicles that I've deadened are modern, and have more than enough reveal, at the sill, where it isn't an issue.

    Totally agree, on all points.
    The more you cover with CLD, the better the results.
    Most people are budget minded and butt pucker at the thought of spending $500 on Dynamat.
    A small wooden roller and proper surface prep are essential to long lasting adhesion, of CLD.
    Wipe surfaces clean, and let dry completely. ( you can use denatured alcohol, if you have some on hand)
    Then use one of these; http://www.amazon.com/Dynamat-10005-Dyna-Roller-Hardwood-Installation/dp/B00020CASS

    The asphalt/tar based stuff does suffer from adhesion problems, and will often make your car smell like a fresh tar roof, during hot summer days.

    As to the foam, CCF (closed cell foam) won't retain moisture like OCF (open cell foam).
    I only use it, sparingly at that, to decouple panels.
    You can pinch small squares between door cards and doors, or under rear package trays, if there is panel vibration.

    There are several spray on combination noise and thermal barriers that are effective
    Stuff like Lizard skin and Second Skins "Spectrum".
    They can be sprayed on both sides of floors as well as inside doors.

    When affixing MLV to vertical panels, or headliners;
    YOU MUST USE VINYL/RUBBER/CONTACT CEMENT!
    HH-66 or Dap Landau top and trim, is recommended.
    Spray adhesives like 3M are worthless.
    Velcro strips and Christmas tree clips also work well, and allow for removal.
     
  17. BuiltFerComfort
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,620

    BuiltFerComfort
    Member

    Bringing this back up. I want the quietest possible (budget) system for a big 39 Chrysler sedan. Would this be a good plan?

    Inside floors: Clean floor of all grease etc. Install rattletrap and seal seams with aluminum tape. Brush on HH-66 adhesive; Install MLV over that. Carpet over that.

    Trunk, same but with removable carpet.

    Doors inside have 77-year old factory tar painted/slopped on the lower part inside, early sound deadening - that, I'd like to leave alone and wasn't sure if it was ok to leave. Hoping to put rattletrap and MLV over the top of the tar.

    Roof, same as floor - rattletrap and MLV.

    Hood, trunk lid - anything needed? Maybe clean well and glue some MLV scraps inside? Or would the rattletrap be better? Hood is center-hinged and will get some new rubber bumpers, when I figure out the best place for them.

    Would 100 sq feet each of MLV and rattletrap be enough?

    1 gallon of HH-66 enough?

    That's a little less than $500 from Amazon. Would some of that money be better spent on lizardskin or similar?
     
  18. brady1929
    Joined: Sep 30, 2006
    Posts: 8,605

    brady1929
    Member

    Great info here
     
  19. BuiltFerComfort
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,620

    BuiltFerComfort
    Member

    One more question - any difference between rattletrap and other types of Fatmat? What should you look for besides price to tell them apart?
     
  20. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 4,165

    indyjps
    Member

    Lobucrod got my business, I liked how lightweight it was for roof.
    Haven't figured out the floor and rest of the car yet.
    MLS looks interesting.
    I've read pages and pages on homemade lizardskin, just can't get on board with it, buying the beads in qty, the specs in the material are sketchy.
    So far my floors are DP90 with bedliner shot in the footwells.

    I'm interested in bonding sound deadener on the backside of the door skins and quarter panels. I want zero water retention and permanent bond. A layer of deadener between door card and door sounds good. There is a lot of drumming/echo within the door.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  21. BuiltFerComfort
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,620

    BuiltFerComfort
    Member

    Lobucrod (closed cell foam) seems like good for heat insulation but less for sound? I'm all about simple and cost-effective but this car must be very quiet inside.

    I have some Mylar plastic "bubble wrap" type insulation that looks about like the Lobucrod stuff, but is cheaper/all plastic - I was thinking of adding that to the roof if there is room under the headliner, to try to keep the heat out.
     
  22. BuiltFerComfort
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,620

    BuiltFerComfort
    Member

    Hoping someone with some experience will chime in - on this, all I know is what I've read.
     
  23. BuiltFerComfort
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,620

    BuiltFerComfort
    Member

    And do you use 1 lb per sq foot MLV or something heavier?
     
  24. Never2low
    Joined: Jan 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,141

    Never2low
    Member

    Sorry for the long ass delay in response, didn't come up in my alerts, for some reason.

    Click expand on first quote.

    Short answer, no.
    The LS offers an all in one combo of some noise reduction, and some thermal barrier.
    The CLD/MLV combo will yield a far better noise control result than the Lizardskin.
    If you find you need more heat barrier towards the firewall, you can add a sheet of the foil backed stuff.


    You want to look at the thickness (in mils) the 80mil is going to be more effective than the 50mil.

    1lb is the standard. 1/2lb can be used if weight is an issue, but will not be as effective as the 1lb.

    Any other questions, feel free to ask! I promise I'll keep a closer eye the responses!

    Crap! I kinda biffed it on the responses. You have to click on "expand" in the first quote to see the rest of what I typed. I'll see if I can't fix it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
  25. flatheadgary
    Joined: Jul 17, 2007
    Posts: 846

    flatheadgary
    Member
    from boron,ca

  26. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
    Member

  27. Never2low
    Joined: Jan 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,141

    Never2low
    Member

  28. I have the Fat Mat Rattle Trap in my Ford and really liked it. This is 80-mil thick and both them and Dyna Mat recommend putting this down first... them something thicker over that. Which I'm not going to do. My buddy that helped me (one of my "will work for pizza" workforce) used Dyna Mat on his car, he liked the Fat Mat better. Or liked the free pizza better.
    521-007.JPG
     
  29. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,825

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    Did mine the poor boy way. Shot the inside with rubberized undercoating and covered it with Peel N Seal. For some heat insulation I covered my firewall and roof with Reflectix (bubble wrap with foil coating on both sides) Heat and noise are much less noticeable now in the cab.
     
  30. Dynamat then dynaliner is what I used for the 51. I used mostly 1/2" Dynaliner to cover the Dynamat, but used thinner on the floor.
    I think the dynamat best controls the harmonic vibrations and the dynaliner is better on whistling sounds, i.e., wind noise. Both improve heat/cold insulation.

    On my 1929 cabriolet with four banger, I just used Dynamat and I notice a lot of the harmonic vibrations, like the shaking steering wheel/column at idle, were greatly reduced! That alone made it all worthwhile!

    My recommendation is to scout around for good buys on Dynamat; I have done OK on buying it through various Amazon sellers. It may be more expensive, but there must be a reason everyone compares other products to Dynamat.
     

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