The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by noyo55, May 29, 2015.
What is the best sound deadener out there now??
I guess that would depend on how much you want to spend.
I like these, if you stick them in your girlfriends ears you can use them kind of like a bridle when riding horsey!
Sorry couldn't help myself!
As far as sound deadener in car bodies, it seems everyone has a favorite and prices are all over the map. I plan to use 3/4" pink or blue styrofoam and latex paint filled with hollow spheres. the whole cab on my truck has been fabricated with double wall construction to accommodate this. Yes I may be nuts, but I'm running an extremely noisy Detroit Diesel engine and I want it quiet enough to be able to carry on a conversation in the cab at highway speed. If you are more normal than me, I've got no clue what you should use.
We've had good luck with those roofing/building products like Peel & Seal. Several similar brands out there. Lined my roadster trunk , kick panels, under dash, floor, etc. Put down a couple layers. The car is loud anyway but it seems to stop the drumming and etc. Plan to use it on our current project car too. Used it on my son's 90 Chevy pickup with great results. . Several threads on here about this. Very cost efficient compared to "brand X".
I've used a peel & stick matting from "TP Tools & Equipment". For a whole car, the best buy is the big roll. Its about half the $$ of others. I went with the thicker 3ply version. Buddy used it also and loves it
All you probably need to know
Broke down after trying cheap swap meet stuff n got dynamat. Not affordable at all but it sure seemed to work on one of my ot cars. I packed it into every possible crevice, reminds me of moms new Buick now. Since its my first car & been over 30 years now , what I spend on it doesn't hurt that bad because it gets driven frequently. Dyna Mat for me on something I'm gonna use or keep. Flux
Check out this website. A lot of good info here.
Seldom am I able to answer technical questions on here, but for once, this falls into my field of expertise.
In my 20+ years of dabbling in Car audio, I've learned a lot.
Peal & stick really isn't that effective, but if you're on a budget, and not expecting the moon, it should suffice.
A lot of good info here; http://store.secondskinaudio.com/how-to-insulate-your-ride/
The purpose of CLD (butyl backed deadeners like Dynamat) is to deaden panels, eliminating resonance.
Contrary to popular belief, you only need 20-25% strategically placed coverage, to achieve this.
It will inadvertently block some noise, but it's not designed to do so.
MLV (mass loaded vinyl) is the key to sound absorption/blocking.
Complete coverage is the key.
It is quite heavy, and does not respond well to most adhesives, but when implemented properly is very effective.
Virgin MLV is highly recommended, as it will not stink (out gas).
The downside to MLV is; it is by no means cheap (including shipping).
Second skin is the benchmark for deadening, unfortunately, they are also the benchmark for pricing.
Superior product, superior price.
Here are a couple cheaper, good quality, substitutes.
This very well maybe more than you're looking to spend, (or more than you need).
I'm just throwing the info out there, to let people know that there are other options.
Edit; Ah! Geezer beat me to it, while I peck typed.
I used some stuff called rattle trap on my impala wagon.....i got off ebay..... HUGE difference
Yup! Rattle trap is made by Fatmat.
It is a very popular/cost effective alternative to the big name stuff.
3M---Water based---Apply with paint brush.
It's a lot of reading, I know, but one of the members on my other time killer, did a fairly comprehensive test of many different CLD deadeners.
So i went to the 2nd skins site and they are saying to put down cld first and then mlv. However, if you try to put your original carpet over this, won't this make the door sill plates too high? How is this handled?
Also, what do i put INSIDE the doors?
Dynamat Xtreme, Stinger Roadkill Expert, or another butyl product by second skin will remain bonded to vertical or roof panels if the surface has been cleaned and the material rolled onto the surface. Tar based material will not remain bonded to vertical or roof panels. Any of the butyl products will work in the doors. Do not put foams, jute, etc inside the door as they can/will retain moisture.
I do not subscribe to the 20% coverage club. More is better and if you cover 20% the panel will still ring like a gong. I cover it all with Stinger Roadkill Expert and then MLV like Stinger Carpet Pad. The results are amazing.
Excellent points, C-10
The thickness of both MLV and the CLD is right around 1/8", so this will add almost a quarter inch.
You can expect fitment issues anytime you add material, where it wasn't designed to be.
The nice thing about the older vehicles we're used to, is the inner door skin/door cards are usually pretty flat. More curves makes for more complications.
I would suggest cutting the MLV and affixing it to the back of the door card. (some adjustment to the clips may be needed)
Test fit it, and if there isn't sufficient room for the CLD, it can be placed on the outside(facing the outer door skin) of the inner skin.
It can also be adhered to the inside of the outer skin, if panel resonance is present.
As far as floors go, some door sill unevenness may be unavoidable. Thou it shouldn't be enough to cause issues with door closure, mainly cosmetic. You can cut the MLV/CLD a bit short, so it's just the carpet that goes under the sill.
Most of the vehicles that I've deadened are modern, and have more than enough reveal, at the sill, where it isn't an issue.
Totally agree, on all points.
The more you cover with CLD, the better the results.
Most people are budget minded and butt pucker at the thought of spending $500 on Dynamat.
A small wooden roller and proper surface prep are essential to long lasting adhesion, of CLD.
Wipe surfaces clean, and let dry completely. ( you can use denatured alcohol, if you have some on hand)
Then use one of these; http://www.amazon.com/Dynamat-10005-Dyna-Roller-Hardwood-Installation/dp/B00020CASS
The asphalt/tar based stuff does suffer from adhesion problems, and will often make your car smell like a fresh tar roof, during hot summer days.
As to the foam, CCF (closed cell foam) won't retain moisture like OCF (open cell foam).
I only use it, sparingly at that, to decouple panels.
You can pinch small squares between door cards and doors, or under rear package trays, if there is panel vibration.
There are several spray on combination noise and thermal barriers that are effective
Stuff like Lizard skin and Second Skins "Spectrum".
They can be sprayed on both sides of floors as well as inside doors.
When affixing MLV to vertical panels, or headliners;
YOU MUST USE VINYL/RUBBER/CONTACT CEMENT!
HH-66 or Dap Landau top and trim, is recommended.
Spray adhesives like 3M are worthless.
Velcro strips and Christmas tree clips also work well, and allow for removal.
Bringing this back up. I want the quietest possible (budget) system for a big 39 Chrysler sedan. Would this be a good plan?
Inside floors: Clean floor of all grease etc. Install rattletrap and seal seams with aluminum tape. Brush on HH-66 adhesive; Install MLV over that. Carpet over that.
Trunk, same but with removable carpet.
Doors inside have 77-year old factory tar painted/slopped on the lower part inside, early sound deadening - that, I'd like to leave alone and wasn't sure if it was ok to leave. Hoping to put rattletrap and MLV over the top of the tar.
Roof, same as floor - rattletrap and MLV.
Hood, trunk lid - anything needed? Maybe clean well and glue some MLV scraps inside? Or would the rattletrap be better? Hood is center-hinged and will get some new rubber bumpers, when I figure out the best place for them.
Would 100 sq feet each of MLV and rattletrap be enough?
1 gallon of HH-66 enough?
That's a little less than $500 from Amazon. Would some of that money be better spent on lizardskin or similar?
Great info here
One more question - any difference between rattletrap and other types of Fatmat? What should you look for besides price to tell them apart?
Lobucrod got my business, I liked how lightweight it was for roof.
Haven't figured out the floor and rest of the car yet.
MLS looks interesting.
I've read pages and pages on homemade lizardskin, just can't get on board with it, buying the beads in qty, the specs in the material are sketchy.
So far my floors are DP90 with bedliner shot in the footwells.
I'm interested in bonding sound deadener on the backside of the door skins and quarter panels. I want zero water retention and permanent bond. A layer of deadener between door card and door sounds good. There is a lot of drumming/echo within the door.
Lobucrod (closed cell foam) seems like good for heat insulation but less for sound? I'm all about simple and cost-effective but this car must be very quiet inside.
I have some Mylar plastic "bubble wrap" type insulation that looks about like the Lobucrod stuff, but is cheaper/all plastic - I was thinking of adding that to the roof if there is room under the headliner, to try to keep the heat out.
Hoping someone with some experience will chime in - on this, all I know is what I've read.
And do you use 1 lb per sq foot MLV or something heavier?
Sorry for the long ass delay in response, didn't come up in my alerts, for some reason.
Click expand on first quote.
Short answer, no.
The LS offers an all in one combo of some noise reduction, and some thermal barrier.
The CLD/MLV combo will yield a far better noise control result than the Lizardskin.
If you find you need more heat barrier towards the firewall, you can add a sheet of the foil backed stuff.
You want to look at the thickness (in mils) the 80mil is going to be more effective than the 50mil.
1lb is the standard. 1/2lb can be used if weight is an issue, but will not be as effective as the 1lb.
Any other questions, feel free to ask! I promise I'll keep a closer eye the responses!
Crap! I kinda biffed it on the responses. You have to click on "expand" in the first quote to see the rest of what I typed. I'll see if I can't fix it.
this sounds promising
That's the thinner 50mil stuff. And it's the same price or a couple bucks cheaper, on Amazon.
I have the Fat Mat Rattle Trap in my Ford and really liked it. This is 80-mil thick and both them and Dyna Mat recommend putting this down first... them something thicker over that. Which I'm not going to do. My buddy that helped me (one of my "will work for pizza" workforce) used Dyna Mat on his car, he liked the Fat Mat better. Or liked the free pizza better.
Did mine the poor boy way. Shot the inside with rubberized undercoating and covered it with Peel N Seal. For some heat insulation I covered my firewall and roof with Reflectix (bubble wrap with foil coating on both sides) Heat and noise are much less noticeable now in the cab.
Dynamat then dynaliner is what I used for the 51. I used mostly 1/2" Dynaliner to cover the Dynamat, but used thinner on the floor.
I think the dynamat best controls the harmonic vibrations and the dynaliner is better on whistling sounds, i.e., wind noise. Both improve heat/cold insulation.
On my 1929 cabriolet with four banger, I just used Dynamat and I notice a lot of the harmonic vibrations, like the shaking steering wheel/column at idle, were greatly reduced! That alone made it all worthwhile!
My recommendation is to scout around for good buys on Dynamat; I have done OK on buying it through various Amazon sellers. It may be more expensive, but there must be a reason everyone compares other products to Dynamat.
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