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Projects Bent a valve in my flathead

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Boryca, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    Last night I was finishing up a valve job on my 59A, thinking I had found and fixed the culprit of my vacuum leak - an intake valve poorly sealing and no intake guide seals. Guess I was wrong!

    Second to last valve, chucked it up in my sweet Craigslist-scored valve grinder, and she didn't spin true! Got to looking, and sure enough, something must have gotten between the valve and the head, and therein lies my problem.

    Anyone else have a valve bending story on a flathead? How'd it happen?

    Mike

    IMG_20190717_074459.jpeg IMG_20190717_074444.jpeg IMG_20190717_074405.jpeg


    Sent from my Pixel 2 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  2. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    Oh! While I'm thinking about it - Mac's lists an "intake or exhaust" valve on their site, and I'm curious if anyone has details on the original valves. Were they designed for use in either spot, or were they specific intake and specific exhaust?
     
  3. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 28,768

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It does look like some foreign object damage. Matching mark on the head?? The other thing is that if it always ran a bit rough since you have had it and you didn't build it someone may have got a bit rough with it or even dropped the valve when they were working on the engine.
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  4. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,699

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I can't speak for Mac's, but when vendors sell valves for flatheads nowadays listed for both intake and exhaust, they are probably made of the steel needed to withstand the exhaust temps. Will still work fine for the intake's lower temps.
     
    ClayMart and alanp561 like this.

  5. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 5,570

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    On an 8BA, the intakes valves have "Ford" in script on the head; exhausts are plain.
     
    Truck64 likes this.
  6. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 3,452

    Fordors
    Member

    BITD a quick test to sort mixed up flathead valves was to use a magnet. The magnet would only attract the intakes; were the factory exhausts Inconel?
     
    deucemac likes this.
  7. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    There's nothing on the head that I can see, though I haven't gotten in there and really cleaned, so the rich-mix soot could be hiding something...

    This was my first thought.

    Interesting that you mention it. I have an 8BA sitting in the garage and was hopeful that I could steal a valve, but when I got it apart noticed that the exhaust valves have a much different keeper design, with a taper on the stem to the keeper land. The intakes were straight/normal. I did see "ford" on the valves, but wasn't paying enough attention to which ones.
     
  8. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,699

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    All the original Ford valves pre-48 were mushroom stemmed. After 49 they were straight. It's odd that your 8BA has some mushroom stems in it.
     
  9. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    No, they're not mushroom stemmed, they have an undercut in the otherwise straight stem, leading to where the keeper would lock in on a flat. I'll have to pull one out and get a good picture, I've never seen anything like it.
     
  10. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Ford manufactured the flatheads with the different intake and exhaust valves but sold only exhausts as replacement parts. I assume this was to stop mechanics from putting intakes in bad neighborhoods.
     
  11. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    Very interesting. Thanks, Bruce!
     
  12. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    On the bent valve...if bent in use you should have matching damage in chamber roof and futher damage all over piston, etc., if the cause was moving around. Maybe you just got a valve that was run over by the forklift back at the factory
     
    Moriarity likes this.
  13. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 561

    leon bee
    Member
    from Arkansas!

    I bent one on a rebuild, an intake valve. Bent it trying to push that damn guide seal down in there. Discovered it after engine was entirely assembled, low compression in that cylinder.
     
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  14. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Hmmm...didn't think about the social dynamics of flathead valve systems! Disassembly and assembly both often call for and even incite both brute force and actual screaming violence! Plenty of opportunity to ruin a part and not notice it.
     
    Moriarity likes this.
  15. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    Brute force for sure! Even with that 3-ft bar it takes some muscle on some of them!

    This one definitely hit something in the chamber, likely in use, as I don't see any other way it would have gotten nicked the way it did... That's some real careless assembly if it was installed like that. Of course, I didn't notice it either until I had it out, so benefit of the doubt to the guy who put it together. Interestingly, there's no damage to the rest of the engine. Nada. No nick on the head, no marks on the piston, no cylinder scuffs, nothing. So I suppose it's possible that it's a case of "dropped the valve, decided to run with it anyway."

    Also of note on this engine: all 8 cylinders have sleeves, so someone put some $$ and effort into it when it was rebuilt, whenever that was.
     
  16. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 561

    leon bee
    Member
    from Arkansas!

    You get good with that bar, though. I spent $100 for a genuine Wilson bar at a flea market, couldn't believe I was paying that much. Used it probably ten times now.
     
  17. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 561

    leon bee
    Member
    from Arkansas!

    I've actually only built two of these engines that are running, but I've torn down several more. I bought an even longer bar off ebay, a New Britain I think......use it for DIS-assembly.
     
  18. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    I think I got mine from Mac's or some such for a fair price, but I really would like to get an old one for comparison. I've also got a spring compressor (pinch style) that's perfect for flatheads, but can't find where I put it!
     
  19. chicken
    Joined: Aug 15, 2004
    Posts: 164

    chicken
    Member
    from Kansas

    Is it possible that at some time a too-long spark plug contacted the valve?

    Terry
     
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  20. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    Definitely possible, and that's kinda what it looks like. Could explain why it's never ran quite right while I've had it. Hell, that could be why the project was abandoned and put away/sold in the first place.
     
  21. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,699

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    When I first had my flathead put together I had too long spark plugs. It smashed the tips flat on about half of them. Didn’t hurt the valves though.
     
  22. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,371

    Mart
    Member

    I had to re-read the first post to check, but you state it was an intake valve. You could only ever bend an exhaust valve with a too long spark plug, as the plug is over the exhaust valve. The plug would not foul an intake.

    To be honest it's hard to imagine a scenario where an intake valve could get bent.

    Mart.
     
  23. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    Mart - it was/is an exhaust valve. I had to re-read that first post too, and I can see how it's confusing! Definitely an exhaust valve that's bent. Before I found that though, I had noticed an intake valve on a different cylinder that looked like it was getting some blow-by/wasn't sealing well and assumed that was my biggest problem, then I found the bent exhaust. I've got a new one in now though, just have to set the valve lash and I should be good to go! I'll have to make a tool to adjust the lifters first though... If anyone has pics of that tool, I'd be interested to see.
     
  24. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,837

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

    I wasn’t happy with this type but didn’t have a choice.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    That's what I've been seeing. Why didn't you like them?
     
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  26. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,712

    Andy
    Member

    This works great
    fullsizeoutput_18b.jpeg
     
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  27. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,837

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

    Not a good fit, hard to reach, metal material too flimsy.
    It worked at the time but remember thinking it would be nice having something more stout.
     
  28. Boryca
    Joined: Jul 18, 2011
    Posts: 695

    Boryca
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Detroit

    Thanks Andy, that's what I was thinking I'd be making.
    Hmm, interesting, thanks. I've been wondering how those get used in practice, they don't look very user-friendly.
     
  29. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,712

    Andy
    Member

    I made it from 1/8" music wire from a hobby shop. Strong as hell.
     
  30. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 561

    leon bee
    Member
    from Arkansas!

    Is that what you look for, just "music wire"?
     

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