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Bellytank in Australia

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Dr Goggles, Sep 28, 2007.

  1. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    Hi all
    Im new here , came across this board via landracing.com.Me and two pals started building a Bellytank a few years back.We fell in love with the original tanks ( our favorite has always been the Brown/Hooper tank , pictured here...
    [​IMG]
    )
    and thought it'd be cool fun to build one and being the kind of jerks who think they can do anything we went for it .It turns out making a race car out of an old fuel tank was even more expensive and complicated than the most cynical of our remaining friends thought , being the kind of stubborn jerks who are too proud to quit even when the sane and the worst gambling addicts have long gone we kept going . We used a slipper tank from what we call a Canberra bomber but you guys know as a U2 built in '53 and through a combination of elimination, advice and plain old slog we're nearly done.

    We've used a local GM V6 based on the old Buick 232 and a four speed , an 8&3/4 Ford diff ( yeah I know but everything's got some rogue genes in it ) and a straight tube axle , there's no suspension.

    We built the whole thing apart from a few minor items in my garage at home , as we tell people if you can't make it with an angle grinder and a drill press , a welder and ...well that's about it ...it's not on the car...

    Over the years we had a great time debating the design , the lack of suspension and various ways of doing things .We spent a fair bit of the folding stuff and at times I wondered if it would have been easier if we'd just bought a huge piece of steel and carved the thing out of it with a cold chisel.Lots of our money got swept out the driveway as swarf , some is sitting in the back yard rusting and some bought parts that we will use on the next bellytank ( ah , yeah we have another original P38 style tank...ahem...[​IMG]) because as you can understand we're far from cured of this disease.;)

    I'll get to posting some photo's in time but here's my co-conspirators about twelve months ago shortly after we dropped it off the build jig for the very first time...you can't see me , I'm behind the camera........that's Dik or Reverend Hedgash and Graham or Colonel Grump , in real life they are bigger than this...

    [​IMG]

    next is a shot from the rear left wheel , the cowl is off and the water tank is hoisted......

    [​IMG]

    ...you can see the scatter shield and the since changed fuel tank bottom right .Next is a shot from when the motor first went in , it has the original manifold since cut'n'shut into a vertical twin throttle body format

    [​IMG]

    thanks for listening , hope ya liked it and I'll get back soon and show y'all some more.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
  2. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    Well, since I first posted we've got on with it and managed to drag her out of the shed last weekend to a show and the weekend just gone our club the Dry Lake Racers of Australia had an airport meet for a test'n'tune day at a place called Mangalore an hour north of Melbourne where we live.Early start Saturday morning, the car had been put on the trailer the night before and all that remained was to load up the tools , fuel ,water and other sundry bit and bobs and hit the road.Mangalore is about 60 miles north of Melbourne and it freeway all the way , I picked up the Colonel and we were on the way...some of you will be pleased to note that we played Dwight Yoakam's "Guitars , Cadillacs" most of the way there....

    We had a few friends and family who rolled up to watch , mostly I think they were there to confirm their own suspicions .......camera's abounded , my 80 year old mum was there telling all who'd listen stories about me as a kid and monitoring the "coarse talk". The Reverend's name is "Dik" , my mother steadfastly refuses to call him that , she calls him Richard.. [​IMG]

    There were about eight other cars there when we arrived as well as three bikes , the factory blown Vincent from Adelaide owned by the Penn's and Greg Watters with an R1 he just picked up still with grind marks on the tailpipe and lights from being flipped , Greg did a couple of runs around 250km/h(~158mph) .Spook had his Trumper there but wasn't entirely happy with the tune he had going and didn't get to wring it's neck but gee it looked a treat.Rod and Carol Hadfield were there with his new HAMBster ,Brian Nicholson and the Moe boys, David Partridge with his indescribably violent sounding RX7 which I have renamed ( unofficially) as "Swearing Around Children" because no-one wants to hear it. Max Ellery was there with his Commodore he got in some runs around 120mph and was happy with what he's done with the car, there was a new streamliner sans bodywork with a Toyota twin cam 1600 that got a lot of attention owned by a Graeme who's surname I missed and a couple of cars with number plates on 'em.Graeme's streamliner was a little "wanting" in the electrical department , our Colonel , who's a Graham himself felt a kinship bond and got it sorted out , he's a genius. Sadly Norm Bradshaw who organised the booking of the airport and has run an early Mustang with a 499 that's gone about 210 til recently couldn't get his new car there due to engine management issues and a near disastrous fire the night before .Norm's new car is a late model Falcon dressed up as a taxi with a big block Ford and a turbo "big enough to put your head in " , still Norm had a good day and his booking didn't go to waste and I think the hat that got passed around covered him.

    We got the tank off the trailer pretty quickly and put some juice in it , made a few checks and fired it up ...it sounded a bit rough and then started shutting down, fuel?? I changed the fuel filter as the tank is new and it had had a crumby one in it previously...turns out the MAP sensor wasn't properly plugged in...try again ,still a bit rough, oops , two leads were mixed up!!!!! , try again ...r,r,r,r,r...poop, is the battery flat? huh? we pull up PJQ's car next to it and get the jumpers out...this is embarrassing. The alternator is either dead or we've got a wiring problem...it takes the Colonel about three minutes to work out that there's a broken wire....it's sorted......now it starts , now it sounds good....we pushed it back to the start of the taxi-way that we're parked on ( on the way it runs over my foot and wrenches my hip....no-one noticed. [​IMG]) and I jump in and give it a little test , it REALLY goes!!!!!....roll it back and another little test. Right! , it's on. I get the suit on and we get ready , Greg Watters goes down and checks with the guys at the end of the taxi-way , we're on. I get it down there and start struggling with the gear shift , if you bend your wrist inwards and hold it up near the right side of your chest where it feels like it has no strength then it is where our gear stick is.....grind , screech , grind , clunk... my leg is already tired.......a hand signal and I turn left out onto the runway .Rod Hadfield had said " just take your time and have a few looks at it all and find the rough bits before you get into it"....I'm in third and I can't tell where I am on the track ...I can't see the line , I can't even tell the grass from the rougher tarmac at the edge ...F#%&* it I think and give it some throttle ...it takes off ...ahh ,there's the line over there , man it's rough but the car is great , it wants to go straight , and fast .I see some cones and get on the brakes , well at least that's what they're called...I manage to get it back into second and get off the clutch and put all my strength into the brake pedal ...it slows enough to be able to swing around the cones ...I'm ah kind of excited at this point and have a little trouble getting my s#%* together ....off again this time I get it into fourth as I go past the end of the taxiway though I'm probably around 2000rpm , it's just chugging , apparently the radar trap that has been set up registers 119km/h( about 70) I turn at the other end and two things hit me ...I can barely breathe as the fumes are so strong in the cab and my legs are nearly shot from being tense and trying to work the pedals........I overshoot the turn off and pull up and pop the canopy.

    Back at the pit we work out the fume problem and cut a little "smile" vent in the nose to pressurize the cab ,further work will need to be done to seal the body against the frame.The gear shift will need to be sweeter and there will need to be changes to the geometry and hydraulic ratios of the brakes and clutch.....but apart from that IT'S FANTASTIC....... [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The Rev suits up. After noticing that the cable mount of the gearshift looks fatigued( turns out I tacked it in position when I was setting it up and never ever went back, oops)we decide to get him to run in third only.......he does six passes and returns completely buzzed . I got back in and gave it a bit of curry , I'm too far over for the speed trap to register but I'm in fourth and well over three grand the runway has several really sharp bumps that are jarring ... I overshoot at the end despite turning it off and getting both feet on the brake pedal, when I finally do swing it around I flick the switch and it blasts off again , I might get to like this .when I get back in the temp gauge reads 200 , when we take the cowl off we realize she's thrown the belt.....we deal with that and send the Reverend out for another run, he canes it and comes back with a grin from ear to ear ....we were both thrilled.

    Apart from a water leak from a dodgily installed sender( me) a gearbox oil leak ( a breather will help) and the fume problem it went astoundingly well.

    here's a shot of the car underway with the cowl off

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    I did a bit of an inspection today , found less problems than I thought we had , the oil leak was mostly from the diff bung...it wasn't done up properly !!!! , there was a bit out of the gearbox ...I might get the rear plate milled , I think the guy who did it might have been having a rough day... The little fuel leak that caused fumes when I was driving at one point seems to have been caused by the breather copping a bit of "slosh" at the point that I was off the throttle so there would have been a bit of a shot going back into the tank from the return line...it's managed to get onto the tailpipe....BUT, all in all I didn't find anything busted , bent or looking bothered at all....which was great news.....here's another shot from the weekend. I'm on the left ( Dr Goggles ) and on the right is my build partner Dik Jarman or Reverend Hedgash

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Wow! This is bloody awesome. You should post this on the main board.
    Oh yeah, welcome to the HAMB! :D
    Cheers
    Jimmy
     
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  5. Elmo Rodge
    Joined: May 12, 2002
    Posts: 2,105

    Elmo Rodge
    Member

    Welcome over here DR Goggles. Someday I'll have to bring my Tank over to your house so they can play. Wayno
     
  6. You're nuts Wayno, but I like the idea! How's your tank coming along?

    And fantastic effort Dr Goggles.
     
  7. Awesome.. Terriffic work! Planning on Bonneville?
     
  8. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    thanks Jimmy , can I move this thread?

    what day suits you Wayno?

    one day , one day.... I love your FWD 'tank

    here's another shot of the shortened gearbox and ultra short tailshaft , it's a four-speed without reverse( the reverse spline is now the rear slider for the yoke)

    [​IMG]

    here's the home made twin throttle body manifold , I know EFI ain't really rodding but this is kind of rat and after last weekend we know it works , I mean Ive got an angle grinder and a hot metal pump who says I can't make my own manifolds:confused:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,249

    nexxussian
    Member

    Hope you don't mind, I swiped a quote for my sig line. Seemed too good to pass up.

    While I myself am still new, welcome, from Alaska.

    The tank looks slick, keep us updated.
     
  10. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    No Worries nexxussian glad you liked it...

    here's a shot of some striping we had done at a recent show by the very talented Ryan Ford ...Ryan is from local hot-rod royalty the son of Eddie Ford a well known local builder and writer....
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    Thought I'd go back a little further to show some more pics of the build ...first up here's a shot of the scattershield we built from 5/16 plate you can also see the extensions made for the gearbox selectors , because the shift cables had to come around the exhaust we lost a lot of approach angle which made it difficult to get to work, by making the cables meet the selectors at right angles it was easier.What this doesn't show is the gantry that I built to support the extensions at the outside , problem is I'm now in the process of coming up with a different gearshift because the one we've got is too difficult to use in the available space , I might end up going for two sticks......This shot has the original headers before we built the extractors, it's also before we made the manifold..there isn't even a firewall yet

    [​IMG]

    next up is the flip front of the car , the steering box ( out of a VW Kombi) and the method of anchoring the front tube axle.We built two little perches welded flat "bridges" on the axle and then sandwiched two pieces of mudflap rubber .The mounts are only five inches apart .This allows a little bit of compliance tilt wise ...it also has a bit of bounce to it as we found out last weekend ...not too much and the salt is nowhere near as rough as the runway we were on last weekend .The axle is 1/4 wall cold drawn tube and has 30 degrees of castor and a couple of degrees of camber ( one or two , can't remember) I only did an alignment by eye but it ran straight as.

    [​IMG]

    on the right of the photo you can also see the rocker pedals that we made , because it so tight there in the footwell you can't take your foot off the clutch pedal plus you need some way to brace yourself and other builder drivers warned us that vibration can get so bad that you can't see if you can't brace yourself well.So , the clutch is activated by heel down and by pressing toe first you can brace yourself, the throttle goes the other way it works "push-pull" so it doesn't need a loop.

    Next, here's a photo of my rough old 63 Panel van or what you guys call a delivery at the salt in '06 ...it gave me grief all the way there ......and all the way back...but I still love her .....and I've still got her

    [​IMG]

    finally here's a photo of the back of my current ride and the tank the morning we were heading to the 'drome meet...um , yeah , flat black, metal flake and red roses on the parcel shelf.......I dunno either.....

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Retroline
    Joined: Aug 20, 2002
    Posts: 1,115

    Retroline
    Member

    Welcome, What an awesome intro!!
     
  13. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    Having for the first time in a while a " little time on my hands" I dragged the red wagon in the shots above into the operating theatre , that's the driveway behind the gate. By the time I got her back from the salt last year it was howling in every gear except 4th( Toyota 5 speed) boiling the battery from some overcharging issue and had a hideous sound coming from the front left suspension. I hoiked the motor and trans out of it as I have a 4 speed lying around and figured it would give me a chance to clean her up underneath and give the engine bay a bit of attention .....I've had this car for fifteen years and it's never really been off the road for a proper seeing to, and most of that time I was on musician wages ( is there such a thing?) so lets just say if I found a part that was better than one on the car I'd use it , if something fell off I'd replace it ,beyond that ?...well I think you're getting the picture. I dismantled several of the same model during that time and had a nice sedan on the road for a time there too... I parked it last year when the registration ran out as I had a reasonable '73 V8 four door which ticked most of my boxes and I was earning enough money to pay the fuel bill( 120-$150 a week!)....that car suddenly became worth a lot of money and being in need of some paint , being thirsty and attracting too much attention from tyre kickers I put it in storage . The storage option made sense when I got the black "ute" above...for nothing......with LPG fitted....I put a fair bit of work into it but hey....so back to the red one. It's in the drive , motor out and I'm gonna get into a bit of rust repair and sort out the underbody and all the little bits and pieces i've ignored for years.....which brings me to ...I'm setting up a molasses tank again for cleaning up a few bits and pieces .I've done it once before , I just used a 15 gallon bin with about 2llbs of molasses and it worked fine for bumper ends and various bits and pieces .This time i've got a 44 gallon drum and about 8llbs of molasses....has anyopne got any handy hints , experience with them .....would a fish tank pump make it work faster and better???.......lemmee know. Ta fellas.;)

    while I'm here this is a shot of two mates cars Craigs'32 flattie in front , Mick's 34 331 behind ...

    [​IMG]

    ...Mick who owns the car at the back ( painted with a brush in house paint ) said " I don't own a good spray gun , actually I don't even own a crap one".......
     
  14. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    oh , oh....I never thought I'd fall for this one....

    I am the original tornado when it comes to car work.....there's blokes who'll bore you stupid with stories about how long this took and how the long way is the shortest way.....well, when it comes to cars I drive if there's a shortcut, I've already taken it , paint-job?....hell-yeah I slaved over that for ,gee , it must have been a day!......the red wagon .....has started to stretch out and godammit I've bought a rotisserie that I built for a friend from him .....and.......well it ain't gonna be no full resto , or anything like it but she's goin' ass-up and getting the treatment underneath.......I lay underneath it a couple of times and that was hard enough work, the thought of cleaning her up from there , let alone doing the necessary welding put the shivers in me ........

    On the bellytank front we've started on the new gearshift , two levers , more compact , less effort to operate....shots soon.

    For the first time in 24 years I bought a stereo for the daily ride...ha ha ha I must have lost me mind and it has USB ( useless silly bastard)......Dang dicka Dow!!

    Stay greasy everyone ,don't stop...steer around it and get on the gas again!!!!!
     
  15. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    here's another shot I got today that my big sister took of the tank at the aero-drome test and tune day....it shows the ample ground clearance we gave her.....

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    Today we had what we call, "tank day"...just creeping along the road to the day where we'll eventually have nothing to do but race the thing...today we changed the angle of the steering column so the steering wheel would be higher...only so if something goes really bad it's not so far for your hands to go to cover your face:D:D....we also tinkered with the alignment of the column and the seat mounts as well as shaving the edges off the seat because up until now we both thought there was something "out of whack" but we couldn't put a finger on it so it's easier to activate the fire system ....and ...um ...the steering wheel...it all feels heaps better now............but it'll never be finished . it just inches toward ideal ...it won't ever get there;)

    at times there I might have been joking , you be the judge.....


    adios amigos
     
  17. haroldd1963
    Joined: Oct 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,154

    haroldd1963
    Member
    from Peru, IL

    Love your tank!
     
  18. Great to see the progress, even better to hear see it driving, congrats, you've done great, now shift up a gear and tidy it up for March....:D

    Cheers,

    Drewfus:) :)
     
  19. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    shift UP a gear? sheesh , we're in top bro,besides ,housework is for wives and wimps......where you been anyway Drewfus?

    I got the body pivots mounted on the Van ready to chuck it up on the rotisserie....it 37 degrees here today too hot for welding and grinding....and I have to go kip , I've got night shift tonight........


    "........I don't need no cup holder!!......."
     
  20. trying to establish a thing called HA/GR in oz...building cars for people, and generally trying to earn money(dayjob) to pay for it all...

    New HA/GR car to debute soon...;) :D

    Cheers,

    Drewfus
     
  21. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    Will do , Craig got hitched a couple of weeks back.....now , have we met ?....I used to play in the Hepileptiks ....you didn't own a pink Plymouth with a rag-top did you.......????
     
  22. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    Just to make sure you all heard , Aussiesteve NEVER HAD A PINK PLYMOUTH......he ain't the guy I thought he may have been(just as well I hear you say) but it turns out we trod the same boards propped up the same bar and loved the same bands in this little country town called Melbourne......

    Of course!

    .....................cripes , that was close....................:rolleyes:


    Fully doctored.
     
  23. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    I came here to yak about our bellytank so I'll get b.o.t.....

    At the moment we're running an early version of a local GM V6 based on the Buick 232..We're doing this for a number of reasons .Firstly we wanted to use the tank we started with in it's original dimensions and there just wasn't enough length for a V8 if we wanted to use a gearbox , in a way this has been good because E class (180 - 260 cubes) is pretty empty as there aren't many motors out there that lakester builders would use in that capacity. Secondly they are cheap, and I mean cheap ....I can buy them with good even comp' complete out of a car for $125 in our money which is US $ 109 on todays exchange... We've built a nice set of headers and have done a pretty thorough porting job on a set of heads , built an enlarged plenum double throttle body manifold ......we just need those bottom ends to hang together for a couple of miles( I'm not exagerating , if we get six four mile runs out of each one i'll be happy) at about 6000rpm....that could be wishful thinkin' I hear you say.....we've heard a couple of stories of them going bad when attempting this and so I sought some advice from a guy who's run several of these motors in various capacity classes for years . I'd been thinking that the quickest cheapest fix for this year before we get into re-building some bottom ends ( cams ,lifters, metal polishing etc) would be keep the crankcase air-pressure down allowing the oil to drain back better to the sump....he agreed and said "well you could spend money on a Vacu-pan or you could scavenge the parts from a air-injection anti-pollution set up" So that's what I've done ......I checked out another home built version on a Clevo' yesterday , got some stainless pipe, a non-return reed valve and some spigots that they use in cast exhaust manifolds to put air into for emissions improvement ( all stuff that was going in the bin;))and this weekend it'll be inspector gadget time , again.

    The wrecking yard I get my bits from is owned by an old rodder ...acres of shit....some small pockets of absolute gold...and one particular container full of fantastic stuff that "isn't for sale" but sometimes you can ....just......look:eek:
     
  24. Again, sweet progress, and great to hear that you're able to now finetune & develope the car.

    Did you ever get that damn shifter sorted?

    Cheers,

    Drewfus

    P.S. you really should re-post this thread on the main page, or have Ryan move it for you....lots of bellytank lovers out there who don't look in this section..
     
  25. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    Drew' we have a prototype version going , the idea is this. Two sticks.....the 1st/2nd stick would have a flip up lock out kind of like what you have on a trailer with hydraulic brakes so you can back it,this would stop the lever going into 1st. There would be a spring that pulls the stick against this effectively holding it in neutral. We would take off in 2nd , in order to stay in 2nd you will need to hold the stick back against the spring tension , when you let it go it will return to the neutral position . At this stage it is then a case of using the second stick to then select 3rd then 4th without any worry of locking the box up . When we need to drive in the pits( which is legal here) the lock out can be flipped out of the way so the box will stay in first so both hands can be kept on the wheel ...with 30 degrees of castor she's a bit heavy in the steering at low speed. My head is currently going over the possibility of making the lock-out a long plate that works "both ways" ...when it's up so you can select first it locks the second lever in neutral..

    This all sounds complicated and unnecessary?...we have very very little space particularly side to side and this method can all work in a two inch wide space....

    ...mum !!!!!, help!!!!! ....I've got my head stuck.....
     
  26. Dr Goggles
    Joined: Sep 27, 2007
    Posts: 154

    Dr Goggles
    Member

    Got the panel-van up on the rotisserie today and got nearly all the clean-up done...some of the welding too.....chucked a few more bits in the molasses..and blasted a fair bit of stuff underneath as well...It was in better shape than I expected ....it's probably leaked oil since the day it left the factory....that helped. I have to do the sills and also the front sub round where the bumper irons mount is pretty shitty but all in all it's not too bad....

    it's got 18 month old fuel in it so I milked that to wash the underbody......Needless to say I got filthy , sand in hair , eyes and bum crack and black from asshole to breakfast time.


    ...that's O.K , I respect you for it too , now , what's your friends number.....
     
  27. publicenemy1925
    Joined: Feb 4, 2007
    Posts: 3,187

    publicenemy1925
    Member
    from OKC, OK

    Outstanding Post! Viva La Tank!
     
  28. Bib Overalls
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,069

    Bib Overalls
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The U2 and Canberra are two totally different airplanes.

    The U2 was a high altitude photo reconisance aircraft designed in the Lockheed "Skunk Works" for the CIA and later adopted by the USAF. NASA flys them now for high altitude research. This aircraft was never exported.

    The Canberra was a British design built under license in the US by Martin. In US service it was called the B-57 Canberra. It was also built under license in Australia and used by air forces around the world.

    The Canberra tank looks like a natural for land speed racing. Hard to tell, but it looks a little fatter up front and more aerodynamic in back. There would be a run on them here but I suspect that in the US they were melted down a long time ago and made into beer cans.
     
  29. xderelict
    Joined: Jul 30, 2006
    Posts: 2,477

    xderelict
    Member Emeritus

    Tanks a lot for sharring. I love this stuff.
     
  30. oldandkrusty
    Joined: Oct 8, 2002
    Posts: 2,096

    oldandkrusty
    Member

    Dr. Goggles, I love your post! What a neat and most unique project to undertake. Belly tanks just speak "hot rod" to me and, even though yours has an Aussie accent, I understand every note it booms out the exhaust (using my literary license to the max, you understand)! Seriously, what a fun thrash, although I'm certain painful on many occassions - especially when it tried to flatten your toes!

    Good luck in the future and please, please keep us up to date with all that is happening.

    By the way, please say "Hi" to Rod and Carol for me. It's been sometime since we last saw each other. I'm glad to learn that they are still thrashing away on new projects. What might they be?

    John Norton, aka "oldandkrusty"
     

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