being trad aint easy

im getting a pretty good collection of torn up flathead transmissions going. at least i can blame the last one on too many beers, but the t-v8 im building made it a whopping 9 miles before it munched the reverse idler backing in the garage yesterday. G**damn that old ford shit anyway. that was the last good cluster i had! some day ill wise up and put a t-5 and alternator on.....nah. any one else here pay the price for being too stubborn to upgrade?

 

i only took out one so far
drove with no first gear for a while

that t-5 and alternator do sound tempting.......to prop up the motor while i change the 39!

 

Traditional isn't cheap or easy. This will be a very interesting post

 

being trad aint easy

That's part of the appeal for me. but I'm a snobby restorer. Just ask the newbe's

 

i am all about traditional. so far for this build, i have nothing newer than 1947 (except for the tires and some new weld). i am always on the hunt for more old parts for my future builds.

 

i hear you on the trannies. i've got a 3spd. top loader from a 52 truck (it's the 39 style but open drive). broke a tooth off first gear doing burnouts which prompted rebuild #1, and another when i downshifted to early and my synchro gears jammed locking me in second gear prompting rebuild #2. But as ryan says, it's worth every bit.

after the 2nd rebuild, no problems (knock on wood!). If it was good enough 60 years ago for hot rodders, it's good enough now. Luckily it's not too hard to rebuild the ol' 39 boxes. next time, use super glue on the back of the bushings to keep them in place when trying to put your gear clusters in. They have a tendency to slide all over like mad if you don't.

happy rebuilding!

 

Although I totally understand the whole " Traditional" thing. There is something to be said for safety and reliability. I love building the cars but when I want to drive somewhere when its "done"(yea right) I don't like workin on it on the side of the road or havin to go fetch the trailer either!

 

I've wrestled with how far does one goes down the road to be considered traditional.

For example: A '39 box is cool as shit. Without a syncro 1st, it can be a real pain in the ass in NJ stop & go traffic. Plus the O/D can't hurt on the hiway as you pull past some modern traffic doing 80/85+. Also gives a few more years to that old flatty.

It's things like this that present a moral challange to me. Thankfully, guys like NealCA are doing things that look traditional, put once you peel back the layer of old iron, you see the modern lifeline underneath.

Is this right or wrong, not sure? I think the intent of the builder can be considered traditional as well. Example: does the owner build and fab everything in his/her garage with a minual amount of tools or talent or both but yet manages to produce a great looking car that is ball to drive? That seems pretty traditional to me.

I would hate to see this hobby fall into a world like that of the militant Mopar restorations. If it ain't 100% traditional, it ain't nothing.

Did you ever really listen to those Mopar car show guys? Well, I have it and it's just plain stupid and boring.

"That nut head is wrong, that crayon mark should be blue and not red. Mopar never offered that option, blah, blah, blah."

Shut up and drive it. Remember that, driving the car?

 

Super Glue is traditional?

 

Being trad ain't easy.......ain't that the truth.....but it sure is FUN!

I made a few "compromises" on my first hotrod to get it on the road, not having the $$$ and PATIENCE to get the "correct" parts. But it's alot of fun to DRIVE!

The next hotrod I'm planning will be more "era correct"....having a hotrod to drive while working on another helps....no rush to finish. I get ANTSY with nothing to hotrod around in.......

 

I agree, there's a certain point where "modern" can meet traditional. Again, knock on wood, my transmission is basically a brand new tranny. I knew when i built the car that the gears were "iffy" at best, and when the gear broke i wasn't surprised. when the synchro's went, i wasn't surprised either. Should i have fixed it all at once...probably . My A is traditional, but i've got new parts here and there. Unless you're a traditional Nazi it's not that important. Designs based on tradition are probably what counts the most. Some folks take it a bit further and use all "old" equipment, like myself. Depends on what you're after i suppose. I wanted the satisifaction in my own mind of building something a guy my age would have built in the mid to late 50s, so that's what i did. It's not any "better" than someone who built a trad car with more modern stuff than i did. Safety is important, yes. Old parts don't always mean unsafe, but some things like dropped axles are just better new. Like you said Banjorear, doing things traditionally with whatever equipment is available, hand built or whatever, is ultimately what it's about.

 

If it was easy, everyone would do it.

 

Maybe i mistook you as being sarcastic. If i did and you weren't trying to be you have my apologies.

However, super glue is a pretty old invention. (see link at bottom) So, i guess "yes". It is traditional if "old shit" means tradition. Or "yes" if tradition means coming up with making something work out of what you've got available. your call.

http://www.supergluecorp.com/history.html

 

Cyanoacrylate (superglue) was invented in 1942 by kodak. made into super glue in the 50's, marketed by lifting a TV show host off the ground by 1959

so, yes superglue is traditional.

btw, 1939 trannies have NEVER been good enough for hot rodders. they were cheap and plentiful to swap out after you thrashed it on the weekend! if you wanted a GOOD trans. you ponied up the bucks for the cad/lasalle box.

I can't afford to swap out the ford boxes, nevermind the lassalle units so I take it easy on the trans.

 

I takes years to comb the states at swap meets for traditional and orginal Ford parts. It isn't easy, its HARD WORK, but its worht it. The people who KNOW their stuff, really appreciate a car done right.

Only about 3 cars at the GNRS had 75% or more traditional and original Henry Ford parts on them, there is something to be admired there.....more than the sea of billet and 1-800 parts bolted on to every other car.

It's too easy to do a open drive shaft, its hard work to make that torque tube and driveshast work.

It's too easy to use a vega box or rack and pinion, it's hard work to tackle and rebuild that F1 box you just found in a field and make it work into the original steering location.

It's too easy to just throw an auto trans or T10, etc.
Try taking on the challenge of rebuilding that '39 toploader and stuffing in some rare zephyr gears and making it all shift smooth and tight. Conecting it all to some orginall Henry Ford pedals and linkage that you took years to find, and then rebuild that pedal set so tight and smooth yourself so that you can truly appreciate what into that car, not just bolting on soething your ordered up.

I could go on and on..............

the point is....... its DAMN HARD WORK to do traditional the right way

 

Well, I guess if minimal tools and talent are a big part of traditional, I am halfway there! I'll be glad to get that old galaxie on the road in the next two years. I promised my youngest daughter I would chauffer her around on her senior prom in the old topless ford. I better get to buildin'.....

 

This past spring and summer, the list is as follows.....
1934 pickup...
Beginning with an alignment issue that found a bent spindle.
Tore out the axle and replaced it.
1. Installed an electronic ignition on the flathead after fighting a cutout problem
1a. rebuilt three 97 strombergs
2. Blew out a 37 tranny after chipping a 2nd gear tooth on a downshift.
3. Installed a 39 rebuilt tranny and after 1 week lost reverse. Here to find the keeper wasn't placed in the reverse gear shaft and fell out.
4. Took out the new tranny and re-installed the reverse gear.
5. a Memorial Day cruise with my wife ended in a tow truck return after stopping at a restaurant to eat, placed it in reverse and the banjo rear end locked up tighter than a drum. It took coasters to get it on the flatbed.
6. Disassembled the banjo rearend and found that someone years ago failed to install grease fittings at the ends of the axle tube and the gear oil spun out toasting pretty much the main pinion. I Should have noticed this one.
7. Reinstalled the rear end after realizing the gear oil hole which allows oil to seap out of the torque tube to the rearend wasn't ever open.
8. Open up a hole at this part of the housing and then found the gear oil leaked out the u-joint area.
8A Drove the pickup to the Cinematic and made it home in one piece
9. Took it apart again......
Installed a new seal next to the speedo gear and grease packed the u-joint to slow it down.
10. Drove the 34 to the Hamb meet at the Rock and Race dragstrip..
11. Noticed an engine knock along the way......
12. The knock became worse upon acceleration...damn it I wanted to run the flatty down the track.
13. Drove the truck home and pulled the lower pan to find a crank journal .008 out of round. Junk crank...
14 At this time we were working like dogs getting the 1932 "missing roadster" on the road by the 1932 Dearborn reunion in August.
15. Found a rebuilt 40 engine a farmer had setting in a barn for 30 years.
It was on a stand and he would go out and start it up once a month.
Lucky..stand and tranny and engine for 500.00
16. Installed the rebuilt flatty into the pickup.
I dont know about you guys but.. Although some parts on my cars may not have existed in the 40's and 50's ...
In my eyes I went really far into trying to be traditional.
Yes... I'll do it again this year if necessary.
I'm hooked.

 

It was traditional in the fifties, to dump the ford tranny and go with something stronger. When we built a 32 coupe in 1956, we blew 5 trannys behind an Olds engine. Replaced it with a Hydramatic with tank clutches, and an Olds rearend. Being traditional doesn't necessarily mean using stock parts, it means making a fast, fun, rod that you can drive.

 

didn't the guys in the 40's 50's & 60's use the best parts available to them at the time? whats wrong with an upgrade that makes your car more enjoyable as long as you don't lose the character of an old traditional hot rod?

 

How many of the era in question could afford the best parts? The way my Dad used to talk about it you used what you had or could get, even if it wasn't the "correct" part. One of the challenges that makes it less than easy.

That being said I made some compromises like the tilt column and front disk brakes. To me this fits what I said above. I had 'em. In fact I've got parts from just about everything, right down to VW and Yugo goodies. If it was cheap or free and would work while keeping with my overall theme I didn't hesitate.

 

Nope...ya didn't scare me off....I'm still gonna run the 292 in front of my '39 box and the '42 rear end.

 

One other point about the traditional era, not everyone was broke.

 

Great point. OHV kits for either the 4cyl or V-8 weren't cheap even back then. Or putting a new in '55 SBC in an old Ford meant you either had cash or connections.

 

I always agreed with the definition of hot rodding as "to improve the performance and reliability of a vehicle." That's what the old guys were doing back then. And usually that meant the latest and greatest ideas and components available or affordable at the time.

If you like the idea of a purely "traditional" (period) car built as it would have been in 1947, 1953, or whenever that's great. And I love to see dull, greasy, "trad" drivers. But I have to say that's really more restoration than hot rodding - by definition. Not bad, just what it is.

What bugs me is I'm hearing and seeing more and more "period perfect, ueber-rare, museum quality, bla, bla.." like it's the new Billit garage art.
Traditional should be a style goal, no matter how you get there. IMO.

 

Back in 1961 I drove my '49 Ford Tudor to school every day and worked on it when it broke, but to have that feel and sound again driving an old car or truck.... after driving my '03 or '05's every day now a days.... man I just can't explain it. It sure takes you back!

 

this is an interesting thread... I like the point about restoration. I've thought a lot about what it means to be "traditional" in a car building sense. Traditional for me is building a car in the family tradition, which for me happens to be disc brakes, sbc, and a lot of subtle, neat touches that set it apart. Why do "traditional" hot rods have to take after the tradition of one particular kind? I think each builder should build a car according to a tradition that he/she finds appealing.

And just maybe that means starting a new tradition.

 

Traditonal on the outside, a bit more modern under the hood and in the chassis.
While the 48 will have about a 70% traditional look it will still have a 70 292 and saginaw 4 speed with a nova style rear end.

At 61 years old I want a few comforts for once and want to be able to make the miles and still be able to have some fun when I get there. Wendover UT is 645 miles from my front door to main street Wendover and most of the other events I go to are a minumum of 90 miles one way and usually 175 or more.

When I get to one of the other projects it will most likely be a lot more towards (traditional) I have plenty of rod mags from the early 60's to use for reference.
That 40+ year stack of parts and stuff out in the sheds has to be good for something.

 

yeah i know all about the mopar resto crowd. i got tired of being looked down upon because my 69 dart started life as a slant 6, who cares what it started life as, its got a big block stroker and a dana 60, brakes upgraded to the largest factory discs and drums, with mopar police wheels. has the largest, strongest factory issued parts packed into one of the smallest lightes platforms, its more driveable than they ever were and faster. more fun to me but still nothing to other people of the mopar muscle car crowd. i bought the "old car" to do it my way, do what i want and im realizing this hobby isnt much different than the mopar resto guys, if it aint traditional it aint shit. ahh once again im going to do it my way, a twist of traditional, but more like it was used and repaired along its journey through life, broken parts replaced with parts that were better, stronger, cheaper and more plentiful. in my eyes it will be like an old hotrod that was never put away, it kept beeing driven and upgraded, instead of like a real traditional hot rod that was built in the 40s or 50s and put away and never touched again. im shooting for traditional to early 60s era for my car, i know a big window.