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Projects Beginning my 1928 chevy speedster

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Josh the Painter, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. How do you find it rides with the quarter ellipticals?
    Cheers,
    Josh
     
  2. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Well it wasn't a street car so it was set up for handling at the cost of comfort. It is very stiff but that's because the shocks were filled with STP or similar and the panhard bar trànsmited every bump and seam to the chassis and the unpadded fibreglass seat didn't help matters much either. But for runs of 4 minutes or so it was a hoot.
     
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  3. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,366

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    It would seem to me that a Watts linkage would be preferable to a Panhard bar to eliminate the side-to-side loading on the quarter eliptics.
     
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  4. It sounds like a very large go- cart! But a bit of fun.
    Cheers
    Josh
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  5. My understanding is they act as a 4 link setup but have almost no deflection so extra linkages are not required. But yes I agree a Watts linkage would be preferable. This is not really a done thing here in Aus so it's going to be a process seeing what the TAC ( Technical Advisory Committee) allow and want added/ changed. Now I have the springs to take accurate dimensions, I can draw my chassis proposal and submit it.
    Cheers
    Josh
     
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  6. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    What engine are you using? Wondering if four springs will put yours in the go cart stiff neighborhood.
     
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  7. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    This looks real familiar.
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. They might! Posies suggested I use their lighter duty springs considering the quad setup. The Engine is a Jaguar 3.8 6 cylinder.

    lower spring with upper control arm, much as you descibed. I see the control arm is adjustable to set castor.

    Cheers
    Josh
     
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  9. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Forgot about the Jag engine that's going to be in the 700 neighborhood with the trans.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
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  10. Yes I was surprised how heavy they are. And dimensionsally large.
    Cheers,
    Josh
     
  11. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    Member Flipper had a speedster thread up several years back using may drive train and suspension. Don't know if it got done but there was some interesting problem solving documented.
     
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  12. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 571

    Desmodromic
    Member

    Josh -- I'm betting you wind up removing several spring leaves before you're through!

    And I'll be very surprised if the 4 springs per axle don't provide sufficient lateral support, without a Panhard rod. This should be stiffer laterally than two long semi-elliptics, which are common.
     
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  13. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,366

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Yup. And high density urethane or even solid spring bushings will make it better vs soft rubber.
     
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  14. WC Durant
    Joined: Apr 10, 2017
    Posts: 131

    WC Durant
    Member

    Very cool project. Like the use of the Jaguar engine and the Chevy sheet metal. Definitely going to be something different.
     
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  15. Im hoping not to remove springs but we will see. Posies offered a light and heavy duty quarter elliptical . Speedway for example sell only the heavy duty springs.
    I rang Posies and asked their advice and ordered directly through them. Kristopher was great to deal with. His suggestion was use the light springs. If I have to remove leaves however so be it.
    There is a lot of weight to carry with that engine.
    One thing about the springs off the rail ends concept is it is placing the front wheels further foward, pushing the engine weight back to a more central location ( which will probably benefit handling). This changes things from a more traditional design where the springs are almost underneath the engine, providing support to the weight of the engine. The quarters have to carry all that, lets call it frame flop, on the opposing ends. With springs at opposing ends that frame with all its weight will be trampolining in the middle. So point is those springs will have to be pretty strong.

    I had not considered bushings so thats a good point, thank you.
    Cheers,
    Josh
     
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  16. Cheers mate. I hope so. Hopefully it inspires a few people to go learn about some of the great aspects of our automotive history.
    Cheers,
    Josh
     
  17. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 571

    Desmodromic
    Member

    Mike & Josh --

    I guess the three of us are trying to solve the same issue; to adapt a Chevy bolt pattern transmission to a Jaguar engine. And, at least in my case, do it cheaply!

    I'm a bit confused by "5speeds" website. They state their conversion is for 3.8 and 4.2 engines. I thought back ends of all Jag Sixes were identical, including the 2.4 and 3.4?! Could be their kit was designed for E-Types (which are 3.8 and 4.2), and are not compatible with XK120/140 for some available space reasons? (Although the later XK150s had 3.8s.) So I've become unsure if all Jaguar bell housings are interchangeable.

    Next question is whether a simple plate adapter attached to the Jag bell housing would work. (By the way, Jaguar transmissions are connected by bolts fed in through the bell housing, and threaded into the threaded transmission case. Therefore their would be no interference between the Chevy case and adapter bolt heads.) This would require that the Chevy input shaft would need to be long enough to fit the clutch disc, and to reach the pilot bearing. Are there different length Chevy input shafts available? Or, could a Chevy bell housing be adapted directly to the Jag engine with a plate adapter, and would that create a tough problem regarding starter motor type & location.

    I believe the Jag bell housing for an automatic is a separate piece. These shouldn't cost much more than scrap aluminum. Could this be modified, with either a bolt-on or welded plate, to match the Chevy transmission? Is it the right depth? Will a standard flywheel & clutch fit inside it? You would need to modify to accommodate a throwout fork, or use a hydraulic throwout bearing.

    If either of you come up with answers to any of these quandaries, please share. I probably have enough of these pieces around to figure out most of the answers, but rounding them up is problematic at the moment. Also, I may have surplus related Jaguar parts, if shipping costs aren't prohibitive.
     
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  18. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 1,136

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    Josh, I recall years ago there being an article it may have been Hot Rod, not sure that covered putting T-10 gears into a Jaguar 4 speed case. If I find it I'll get some pics up. Don't know if it'll help but does give options.
     
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  19. Stooge
    Joined: Sep 9, 2015
    Posts: 504

    Stooge
    Member

    I don't know how I missed this before when the first post has some of my favorite words in it! Great choices so far, and really looking forward to this! subscribed
     
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  20. Im still researching trying to learn more and more as I get time. Heres a link to a company here in Australia that does a conversion bellhousing
    https://dellowconversions.com.au/pr...front-shaft-to-jaguar-6-cylinder-2-4-3-8-4-2/

    And heres another company that uses an adaptor plate to fit a 300zx box. Allows the 300zx clutch and everything, pretty sweet actually.
    https://xcessivemanufacturing.com/jaguar/4-2l-manual-transmission-adapter-nissan-vg-5-speed.html

    My understanding is the T5 has to be the international model which I believe was used on Fords, I also believe they used a longer input shaft.

    That would be interesting, from memory the issue with the Jag box was lack of synchro's so that would solve that issue Im sure. How available t-10 gears are now is another story. Items that could be easily found 10 years ago are seemingly non existant or worth a fortune now it seems.


    Cheers mate! Glad to have you on board. Apologies to everyone for the late response. This damn virus has had my work load awfully sporadic and Ive been running all week.


    Ive been drawing my plans for my proposal to build in my lunch breaks and any scrap of time I can get. Having the springs finally has allowed me my final basic measurements so fingers crossed in the next week I can get these finished and submitted to the QSRTAC.

    Ive been back in contact with the gentleman who modifies the wheels to make sure we can do what we need for engineering, hopefully I have plans set in stone this week for those.

    As for chasing hubs a fortnight ago I got onto a 52 F1 front end not far from home through ebay, hit 'buy it now' and cant get any contact from the seller. Most unfortunate. They might come through yet but still on the look out for F1 hubs.

    Cheers,
    Josh
     
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  21. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 571

    Desmodromic
    Member

    The Jag (aka Moss) gearbox (up to around '66) did indeed have synchros, on all forward speeds except 1st. Overdrive was available, except in the E-Type. After that time, the boxes were full synchro. I can't imagine the expense of converting to T10 gearing being justifiable in your application; you still have to buy the Jag box, as well as the T10, and lots of machine work. The T10 gears may be a bit stronger, but that is not an issue with the Jag box.

    I don't know about prevailing prices south of the equator, but I was just offered a 3.8 Jag engine complete through the E gearbox, for $500-US. Admittedly a bargain, but they pop up now and then.
     
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  22. Dedsoto
    Joined: Jan 7, 2014
    Posts: 320

    Dedsoto
    Member
    from Australia
    1. Aussie HAMBers

    Eccentric bushes in the spring eyes will allow you to set castor, or an eccentric bolt set up like the inner bush on a falcon lower control arm will allow you to change it easier but may be a little unsightly in the mount.

    993-996-rubber-bushings-toe-eccentric-large.jpg in-70-mustang2.jpg
     
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  23. That's an interesting idea and one I had not considered. Thanks for sharing. I'm finalising on my PTB so this opens up some options.
    Cheers,
    Josh
     
  24. So a couple of wins.
    My Proposal to Build has been authorised so watch this space, in the coming weeks the frame building should begin. I have removed front and rear axles and will on sell them, so we are onto a basically bare frame.

    Im going with a shortened frame, stopping before the diff. The boat tail will sit behind the frame only and I will brace the body internally.

    Ive decided on running elongated bolt holes in the upper rails allowing adjustment for castor and pinion angles, to be retained on a bracket with an adjuster. Interestingly I found this design on pictures of a Miller under restoration.

    My basic plans.

    20200430_194703.jpg
    20200430_194505.jpg


    I also have aquired a pair of F1 hubs. Happy days I now have turning drums on a spindle.
    20200526_171817.jpg 20200526_171929.jpg

    However there's a good chance now I wont run the 34 chev wires I have. There's still the issue of converting the stud pattern on the rear axles and the atleast $800 per wheel cost of making new outer bands and respoking. These would have given me 19x 5" wires.
    Wheel vintiques sell 18x 5.5" wires for about $500 aus per wheel. A little smaller and wider but may be the better option as I can purchase in early and late Ford pattern already .

    Cheers,
    Josh
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  25. stude54ht
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 973

    stude54ht
    Member
    from Spokane WA

    _IGP3356.JPG Here"s my set up on a light (1,300 lb) roadster.
     
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  26. AmishMike
    Joined: Mar 27, 2014
    Posts: 968

    AmishMike
    Member

    Would love to see more about your 1300 lb rod^^^^^^. Starting work on light weight also.Any build pics or site???
     

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