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Technical Been chasing a shake

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by trollst, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 2,018

    trollst
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So, I put my 36 together twenty years ago, I used a 52 F1 frame, grafted a stock pinto onto the front with 5 bolt, 10 inch rotors and pinto rear springs with a chevy 10 bolt. Had no money, so on went a set of moon discs, and was ran that way for nearly 15 years. Always had a front end shake at exactly 60 miles an hour, feels like an out of balance tire, I just lived with it, I didn't have a lot of car money to jack around with it. I ran cheap coopers on it, blamed them. Years later after losing one of the discs and finding it again, removed them, put on early ford caps and trim rings, still had a shake, so bought new cheap tires again, still had a shake, blamed the trim rings. Fast forward to this year, broke down, bought new torque thrusts all round, put the tires on the truck on the new wheels, still got a shake. Off to the local hot rod, well experienced old guy alignment shop with 70 years under his belt, he drives it, says it's tires, o.k., new good coopers all around, alignment checked all o.k., STILL GOT A SHAKE, although relatively minor. Exactly at 60 miles an hour, although the truck drives like it hasn't in years, an absolute pleasure, the shake irritates me. The only thing left, is the rotors back then were redrilled stock 4 bolt drilled to five bolt chev pattern. Is it possible they aren't perfectly round, does anybody here have experience with the same thing? I'm gonna buy new rotors, the wheels are lug centric, so that's really all that's left, ideas? No, I don't remember where I got the rotors, it was twenty years ago. gray.jpg
     
    catdad49 likes this.
  2. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,439

    manyolcars

    measure the wheelbase on each side of your goodlooking truck. They need to be the same
     
  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,671

    squirrel
    Member

    put it up in the air a little bit, spin the wheels, are they wobbling up and down?
     
  4. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 6,396

    Budget36
    Member

    Find a shop that will balance them on the truck. Road balance?
     
    rjones35 likes this.

  5. The rotors and studs need to be right on for lug centric to mean a damn thing.
    Some of theses crossbread rotors we get from our favorite Chinese parts distribution houses are not right. I've read on here where a guy chased and changed stuff and eventually lived with shitty road manners and found out years later the rotors were off. Since the day I read that post, the first thing I check on new rotors is the bolt circle.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  6. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,932

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Had an ot vehile, back in the day, same problem. Lived with till I needed brakes, turned the rotors, problem gone! Rotors can cause shake/vibrations. Bones
     
  7. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Find a shop that has the old style on the vehicle spin balancer that can balance the entire assembly on the vehicle.
    Here's one type.
     
  8. walter
    Joined: Nov 4, 2007
    Posts: 623

    walter
    Member

    Rotors! Was challenged with a shake for years with re drilled rotors. Replaced with factory rotors and smooth as silk!
     
  9. junkman8888
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 606

    junkman8888
    Member

    If you want to cure the "shakes" you need to check everything. The most common culprit is wheels/tires. Once you've got the vehicle safely up on jack stands slowly rotate the wheels while checking for excessive runout either up and down or left and right. If you find a problem, mark the hub and wheel, rotate the wheel to a different position on the hub and retest. If the runout moves, the problem is the wheel, if not, it's the hub/axle. Then swap wheels side-to-side to make sure that both the wheel and axle aren't bent. After the tires/wheels have been tested for runout, check balance. Noting that you've changed wheels/ tires over the years chances are your problem is a bent/out of balance driveshaft. Best of luck on your project
     
    pitman and studebaker46 like this.
  10. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 2,018

    trollst
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I know it's not the driveshaft, it's definitely in the front end. I doubt I could see any movement by eye, it is slight and only compounds with speed. At speed an out of balance driveshaft will give you a hum in your ass, it turns so fast, this is a shake in the steering wheel at a specific speed. I'm going with rotors, I think Vickie is right, lug centric has to be spot on. I'm just curious if any body has experience with this, there is no reason for this thing to shake now, I've spent a lot of cash on wheels and new rubber, the good stuff, it should be smooth as glass, the wheel shop I used has a million years experience between the two old fuckers running it, they know their stuff. They're betting the rotors aren't true.
    At 50 it's glass smooth and builds to 60, around 65 you start to drive out of it and it becomes smoother, but not like it should be. Hope that helps. Squirrel, I don't have a dial gauge, so the next step is new rotors, any suggestions as to who to get them from?
     
  11. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,671

    squirrel
    Member

    jack it up, see if you can see it wobble by eye. Watch the edge of the rim, maybe hold a stick next to it as a reference.

    Don't cost nuthin to look.
     
    firstinsteele and ClayMart like this.
  12. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 26,623

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    look at rear pinion angle - wife's '50 Chevy PU had vibration at started at 45mph and corrected pinion angle took it away - yes, it vibrated the truck and made it seem that frontend had a problem
     
    jaw22w likes this.
  13. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,046

    pitman

    J.J. raises a good possibility.
     
  14. jaw22w
    Joined: Mar 2, 2013
    Posts: 1,210

    jaw22w
    Member
    from Indiana

    I had the same experience. Fixed a front end shake with a pinion angle adjustment!
     
  15. If it’s coming through the steering wheel
    You have already replaced tires and wheels

    I would check rotors , hubs and spindles
    Seen rust and stuff between a rotor and hub cause issues also

    On car balances are great for balancing the complete assembly on the car. Just remember if you pull the wheel or rotor etc. After balancing index everything so you don’t loose the balance IF you have to take it apart for whatever reason.
     
  16. millersgarage
    Joined: Jun 23, 2009
    Posts: 2,086

    millersgarage
    Member

    I know you said it isn't the driveshaft, but...
    I had a similar issue, and it turned out being an incorrect size u-joint. Looked perfect, but take the caps off and look at the bearing surfaces, mine had funny wear. Finally found the correct size, and that did it.
     
  17. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,017

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    The steering column is a very vulnerable component to a harmonic vibration anywhere in the vehicle. Think about it.....longish tube, upper portion not supported well and with a ‘weight’ (steering wheel) at the unsupported end.

    It’s a little like looking for something you misplaced, if you haven’t found it yet, you have not been thorough in your search. And, sometimes you do find it in a place where you already looked....but not carefully enough. I say this from experience. I am thinking, as other’s have, the driveshaft and components are a good bet.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
    trollst likes this.
  18. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 2,018

    trollst
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Squirrel, I'll do that, Ray, I'm looking, gotta find it. The rest of you, I appreciate the ideas, this old girl is my artwork, a vehicle I ignored for a long time, now trying to make her right, I've put a lot of miles on it. I have always built my cars out of my pocket, never has money come out of our house, as it's my hobby and I find ways to pay for it, but the last couple years, I'm retired as an equipment operator, but work for a guy occaisionally. The phone has rung a lot this year, so I got some extra to spend on the truck, so, I'll make it perfect, fix all that I've ignored. I'll let you guys know when I find this.
     
    firstinsteele and Hnstray like this.
  19. This^^^ All free and easy stuff to check. ;)

    If the rotors are separate from the hubs I'd even re-clock them on the studs and check for runout and out of round. Are the lug nuts compatible with the wheels; that is, tapered seat or flat flanged clamping surfaces. Good shock absorbers with good mounting bushings? Can you see that the back of the wheel is making even contact on the rotor with no funny "witness marks"?
     
  20. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 2,018

    trollst
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Rotors and hubs are one piece, shocks are new, new lug nuts, tapered seat style. Everything fits as it should, that's why its been a frustrating thing to find.
     
  21. Pop a rotor off and post some pics.
    Both sides.
    Every 4 lug drilled to a 5 I've seen is a mess. And many of them have shape and change cast into the back side making re drill a forbidden activity
     
  22. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,844

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The new rotors aren't expensive. I say let us know what happens after they are installed.
     
  23. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,952

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Not being a smart ass but could it be an aero issue?
     
  24. [​IMG]
     
  25. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Spinning each wheel on the vehicle individually will eliminate things like the driveshaft and an aero factors. If the driveshaft isn't turning and the shake is still there, it can't be the cause.
     
  26. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 2,018

    trollst
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'll post pics when I get the chance, I'm heading into the bush for work the next couple weeks, be patient. I want to solve this so we all learn something, I'm leaning toward rotors being the cause.
     
  27. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,439

    manyolcars

    I have a 35 Ford pickup with vibration. I'm pretty sure its the shop made wheel adapters so I will take all that of and try plain wheels. Maybe you can temporarily try wheels that match the rotors factory bolt pattern
     
  28. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,439

    manyolcars

    Hey trollst, how did you get your truck to sit right with a F1 frame? Did you curve the frame up in front of and behind the cab?
     
  29. spanners
    Joined: Feb 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,176

    spanners
    Member

    What about using the 'on road' method of finding, or should I say, eliminating possible components from the equation. ( I sound like the Professor from Back to the Future) Run her up to just past the vibration point out on the open road and then chuck it into sloppy cog (neutral) with foot on the clutch. Engine at idle, still vibrating you've eliminated the engine from the number of things causing it.
    Of course ignore this if you are not running a proper cog box with 3 pedals.
     
  30. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 2,018

    trollst
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The frame is basically unmodified, pinched at the front to narrow it, and cut the rear totally off, created a kick up for axle clearance and welded the rear behind the axle back on. Built body mounts to suit the whole combo, the reason for the f1 frame is because the truck was a Bellingham Washington airport fire truck all it's life, and the F1 frame was free.
    Because I'm a run whacha brung guy, I made it work. Lotsa stare at it from fifty feet kinda stuff till it was right, built the box from scratch, found pickup fenders that were throw aways, leaned on my old school body and fender buddy to fix them, and it came together.
    I been running it twenty years with the way it was built cause family, mortgages and food were more important than car stuff, but now I'm debt free, so the old girl will see some attention.
    If you want to see the build go to www.trolls.quack.net. or google trolls hot rods.
     

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