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Bare Metal prep no primer

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Mnhotrodbuilder, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. Mnhotrodbuilder
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,142

    Mnhotrodbuilder
    Member
    from Afton, MN

    I see alot of project cars without primer on them after metal work has been completed. Some of these cars are all steel with no primer at all which looks cool to me on some cars. My question is are you applying anything to the surface to keep the panels from getting surface rust. I'm not talking about clear coat after everything is all said and done. I'm just talking about when the car is in the project stage?

    Thanks for your time

    Jesse
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  2. Mnhotrodbuilder
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,142

    Mnhotrodbuilder
    Member
    from Afton, MN

    Maybe they don't put anything on it. Wasn't sure
     
  3. nightperson
    Joined: Feb 1, 2008
    Posts: 90

    nightperson
    Member

    i use mineral spirits and oil mixed 1:1- you can use kerosene and oil too but i am not a fan of the smell so i stopped using it

    lots use gibbs but im cheap so i'll use my own

    http://www.roadsters.com/gibbs/

    just stay away from silicone based stuff b/c it messes with the paint- wd40 works well too
     
  4. Mnhotrodbuilder
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,142

    Mnhotrodbuilder
    Member
    from Afton, MN

    how long does it last?
     

  5. nightperson
    Joined: Feb 1, 2008
    Posts: 90

    nightperson
    Member

    my oil stuff lasts a while, not sure how long but i have panels out there that have been untouched for a month for a 27 ford im building- my shop is 1/4 mile from the beach and humid as hell 11 months out of the year.

    the key is to wipe them down when you are done and not get any body oils on them after that- i usually wear gloves
     
  6. No offense intended here but I don't oil anything I'm planning on painting. I worked with an exceptional painter for a long time [we owned a shop together]. He never let me use his tools because of oil contamination.

    If you are planning on painting it it is going to need to be prepped before paint anyway, unless you let it set of 30 or 40 years the surface rust won't hurt anything that you can't cure with a DA.
     
  7. JDHolmes
    Joined: Nov 25, 2006
    Posts: 918

    JDHolmes
    Member
    from Spring TX

    I use something from Bill Hirsch that sprays on over metal and does not allow rust to penetrate. It must be kept dry however, so it doesn't work outside, but keeping the car in the shop, even a damp shop, and it's fine. When ready to prime, just wash it off with soap and water.

    I've got a 72 cutlass hood I stripped 8 months ago that's still in bare metal, no rust, not even surface.
     
  8. I agree with Pork'nBeaner ... I would never (intentionally) oil a surface I was intending to paint (again, this is just my opinion). I had a car sit inside my garage in bare metal for almost 5 years (Canada ... lots of snow and rain) with no rust issues at all. I would think that Arizona would be dry enough that rust wouldn't be an issue (I am assuming you are talking about a bare metal car being stored INSIDE right) and if you garage is damp, what about just buying a dehumidfier for the garage.
     
  9. Mnhotrodbuilder
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,142

    Mnhotrodbuilder
    Member
    from Afton, MN

    jdholmes do you know whats inthe stuff you got from bill? Is it oil based?
     
  10. I dunno about the inside the garage thing.

    My old stude had leaves and parts half way up the inside of the tub. It sat in a field for 7 years and although it had serious (still has) no rust through anywhere. I cleaned it out and put it inside and within' a year I had a hole in the floor. :eek:

    It does get pretty humid in my garage even with dehumidifire chrystals. I think when I cleaned the leaves out it let air get to the floor and that was what did it in.
     
  11. bill3337
    Joined: Sep 30, 2007
    Posts: 231

    bill3337
    Member

    Nope, nothing on it, but keep it in a climate controlled garage. It's been bare metal for a year or more now, and nothing but a minor haze here and there that easily sands off. I don't want to contaminate the surface with anything, no matter what anyone says before I epoxy it, which should be soon I hope.
     

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  12. 8-Track
    Joined: Jul 26, 2008
    Posts: 396

    8-Track
    Member

  13. Can painters or anyone attest to the fact that Gibbs claims that there are no issues painting after treating bare metal with Gibbs? I have a running project that will have parts in bare metal as I go along, and I'd prefer not to have paint or prime in the meantime, only to have to removed it again when it comes time for real paint/primer.
     
  14. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    Anything that prevents corrosion leaves a residue, and that is bad for painting. For maximum paint adhesion ALL oil and contamination must be removed. Ideally, the metal will be hospital operating room clean prior to painting. Completely removing something like oil requires a thorough and detailed cleaning, including every pit, lap joint, hole etc. Even if residue isn't bad enough to cause fish-eyes, it can still compromise the paint job. Removing silicone is much harder than removing oil. Some preservatives contain silicone, so watch out for that.
     
  15. atomickustom
    Joined: Aug 30, 2005
    Posts: 3,408

    atomickustom
    Member

    Here is my trick for bare metal: I PAINT IT!

    I do not understand the current fetish for bare metal and have no interest in taking part. When I am finished working on a bare part of the car I put it in primer as quickly as possible. Just like my father did, just like his father did, and just like every car guy prior to maybe 1999 or so did unless he lived in a frickin' desert. A good epoxy primer seals it all up and does not interfere in any way with future body work or paint the way oil can.
     
  16. 32v
    Joined: May 20, 2007
    Posts: 952

    32v
    Member
    from v.i.

    eastwood after blast works great no more rusty finger marks
    wayne
     
  17. Simple question: does anyone have experience painting over gibbs? They say that you can, but it sounds too good to be true.

    I have no fetish with bare metal. Simply that I'm not a painter or body man and I don't want to create more work for myself having to strip some primer b/c it won't work with whatever is going over top, or it wasn't applied properly (by me).
     
  18. fordcragar
    Joined: Dec 28, 2005
    Posts: 3,179

    fordcragar
    Member
    from Yakima WA.

    Any part/car that is in my garage that is in bare metal, will be bare metal until painted. It isn't worth the risk to a paint job, to save a little work getting surface rust off the panels, before painting.
     
  19. studhud
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,403

    studhud
    Member

    This oil shit is funny when a cars body panel are pressed did you know it was oiled? Yup if its not oiled it grabs in the dies and tears to shit. And when you use one of these

    [​IMG]

    Guess what you oil the metal most guys just clean the metal just as all factories that built car bodies did and still do its called clean the oil off.

    Dave Hitch
     
  20. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    You asked for a professional opinion. I have been professionally and privately involved with assorted projects over time, and in addition to that, for 15+ years I and my shop did a LOT of high quality show painting, and some utility level painting too. We used all sorts of paint, but mostly epoxy primer and single stage urethane. I/we got paid for it, so that makes me a professional.

    I agree, what Gibbs says sounds too good to be true. Per my previous post, anything that prevents rust is leaving a residue. Residue is bad. That said, I'll ask you a simple question. Knowing that ANY residue or contamination will can compromise a paint job, why would you even consider trying it? Materials cost, time, effort...... it's not worth the risk, no matter what Gibbs claims. Even when everything possible is done to get things right, once in a while something bad happens. I happen to have some Gibbs, but I wouldn't think of painting over it. I wouldn't even want it near parts I was going to paint, or was in the process of painting. So no, I have never tried painting over Gibbs. Unless you just like to experiment, you shouldn't do it on anything that matters.
     
  21. VONRUBEN65
    Joined: Nov 3, 2006
    Posts: 537

    VONRUBEN65
    Member
    from LOMITA

    wow climate controlled garage must be nice!!! LUCKY
     
  22. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,614

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    x2 agreed
    serrious high end painters I know wear white gloves around so as not to contaminate the surface with the oils in your hand.-
     
  23. KrisKustomPaint
    Joined: Apr 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,107

    KrisKustomPaint
    Member

    Any painter worth his salt will clean the ever living shit out of ever panel, seam, crevice and edge. Regardless if it has been covered in oil or not. I have used a mix of ATF and lacquer thinner to keep the rust down on bare metal parts. When it comes time to paint I wipe it down with lacquer thinner. Then DA the panel with 180, Then wipe it down again with quality wax and grease remover, and dry with a separate CLEAN cloth. Then blow it of with air, then tack rag. Then primer. Being a painter means acquiring OCD.
     
  24. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,280

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    KKpaint is more accurate with his statement. Clean it all off. Then it should be metal prepped (acid wash) and blown dry. It should have a bluish/gold look and then pretty much NOTHING will fail to bond. The easiest way to keep ahead of it is in pieces or from the top down and rinse with the hottest water you can use. Then LOTS AND LOTS of air to get it all dry. Major pain in the ass but worth the trouble. I hate rags on bare steel. Little fiber sprouts come up in the 1st coats no matter what you do to prevent it. Who said OCD?
     
  25. studhud
    Joined: Jan 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,403

    studhud
    Member

    I've painted over Gibbs just as a test it works but it doesn't stick as good as if you cleaned it thoroughly! As others have said you have to clean everything multiple times when you think its good enough do it again just my 2 cents.

    Dave Hitch
     
  26. BiLLyLaurianO
    Joined: May 17, 2011
    Posts: 15

    BiLLyLaurianO
    Member

    What Did you use to get the car looking Smoothie
     
  27. bill3337
    Joined: Sep 30, 2007
    Posts: 231

    bill3337
    Member

    It's just nicely finished metal work, then I used a strip it disc to clean it all up and give it a uniform finish then hit it with a d/a sander and 120 grit, then gave it a bit of a hand sand in one direction to give it kind of a brushed look. Sounds pretty involved but really took about a day and a half's worth of work. Thanks for asking.
     

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