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Technical Banjo rear

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 87notch, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,343

    Koz
    Member

    As of a few weeks ago, Speedway is selling exactly the same gears as Macks and Joblot, the Italian made ones. I have found some variation in the pinion diameter, but nothing that can't be easily fixed. I'm not defending Speedways Chinese tendacys but I know the gears they are selling at the moment are decent and I haven't had any problems with any I've put in, at least two dozen sets in the last year or so alone. I save good original gears but really don't see any advantage to using them, only price, as the factory gears are usually readily available and cheap. As noted above, there are variations on the theme so just get the right gears for whatever rear you are using.

    One other comment, I prefer the late solid steel shaft to the tapered tube type. They run better without any balance problems, are easier to shorten, and have the benefit of the center bearing. Banjos are totally reliable rears as long as the bearings and races are in excellent condition. Axles and keys that are in good shape do not screw up and they are quiet! They are also super easy to work on.
     
  2. nutbush
    Joined: Jul 7, 2006
    Posts: 258

    nutbush
    Member
    from Texas

    That saying sounds cool, but thats about it...
     
  3. Christom
    Joined: Nov 3, 2011
    Posts: 217

    Christom
    Member

    I had planned to eventually "upgrade" to a quick-change centre piece in my AV8 coupe. I've always liked the QC idea - and the look. Since running the stock '40 banjo/'39 3spd setup for a while I'm not so sure anymore. Had a long drive in a trad FH hotrod with a QC recently and that cool gear whine started to get a bit annoying after a few miles to be honest. That rear got quite warm too after a few highway miles. Never thought I'd be thinking like this.....
    Sure the stock '40 gears I have now are a bit low for my liking so I'll more likely go with a 3:54 R&P set instead of the QC option. Afterall the car is all together now and running great as it is. I really don't think I'd ever be messing around swapping QC ratios in reality. Just my thoughts on the OP matter.
     
  4. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 1,858

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A clubmember has a FH with both the QC and the T5 trans. The T 5 makes the QC redundant; the best performance enhancement for a flathead is a 5 sp trans and you can't hurt it with a flathead. JMO
     
  5. 87notch Did you get any help on your question?
     
  6. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,776

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    The USA made ring and pinion sets were availble for many decades after they should have been dropped, through the mid-80s or so. Why did they go away?
    Well, here it is. Something called a hammermill had been using a Ford R&P since the 30s and it took over 50 years for the replacement parts market to dry up as the "new" models, changed in the 60s or early 70s, used the modern style ring and pinion.
    The gear sets had been available because the factory ran a full production run when their replacement stock dropped to a certain amount. The antique Ford market fed off this stock as the hammermill requirements deminished. Sales were so slow and production requirements so large that no one wanted to do the deal. Good usble gears were also available in lage quantities in parts rearends. The gear sets were made in 4.11:1, 3.78:1, and by special order 3.54:1 and 3.27:1.
     
  7. Dad's 1932
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 203

    Dad's 1932
    Member
    from Santa Rosa

    87notch, Here is what I have referring to you original question . 32 Roadster full fendered , so a pretty light car like your Model A . 255" Flathead with a cam and heads . It has good power/torque . I have a 3sp toploader like your 39 box . I am running a 29 tooth first gear . I have a 39/40 banjo rear with 3.25 gears . I am running a 7.50-16 tire which measures 31" tall . I love this combo . The 29 tooth first gear gets off the line nicely , you can just let out the clutch ,no slipping it to get the car rolling . I drive around town a lot and first and second gear are a pleasure to drive in . On the freeway , I can roll along at what ever speed I like . When we drove up to Canada we stayed at around 65 on average . At 65 this combo is at 2300 or so. This was a nice speed at a good rpm . When I want I can roll into the throttle and get up to 80 real easy .Remember, Flatheads have good torque with a limited RPM .
    Here is the run down I figured out for rear gears when I was putting my car together. There is about 200 rpm difference for every gear change with 3rd gear being 1.1 like in the Ford 3sp trans .

    This is at 65 mph with a 31" tall tire

    4.11 = 2896
    3.78 = 2663
    3.54 = 2494
    3.25 = 2290

    This all changes with tire size so you need to find rear tire size you are going to run first . Here is an example with a 29" tall tire at 65 mph

    4.11 = 3095
    3.78 = 2847
    3.54 = 2666
    3.25 = 2448

    Again there is roughly 200 rpm difference . It all comes down to what you want . I like cruising down the freeway at a comfortable speed without the engine winding up so with a 29" tall tire and 3.54 you are at 2700 which sounds high to me for long trips even though there are a lot of people doing it . I have a couple trips planned this year that we are driving to that are 1000 mile + trips so I really like my 3.25 ratio . I also feel I am not giving up anything because my 29 tooth first gear with the 3.25 is basically the same as a 28 tooth first gear with 3.54. Our trip to Canada was perfect and I think it surprised a lot of people how well we cruised and kept up with all the street rods ( real street rods meaning all modern drive train) considering it is all old school parts or "traditional" as everyone puts it .

    Let me know if you have more questions . This is my 1 cent of info .
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  8. That's good info right there.
     
  9. hilltopgaragede
    Joined: Apr 8, 2010
    Posts: 159

    hilltopgaragede
    Member
    from Delaware

    Don't take it the wrong way, I've had many a Chevy, camaro, Chevelle, trucks, and my FED is Chevy powered. But this post is under traditional hot rods. Takes a lot to make a flaty make real power but they sure do sound kool! Got a ford, keep a ford in it, same goes for a Chevy.


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  10. nutbush
    Joined: Jul 7, 2006
    Posts: 258

    nutbush
    Member
    from Texas


    I didnt, but by the same token, the '62 sbc in my '32 Ford is traditional. The ford in a ford and chevy in a chevy doesnt hold water with me. Think nailhead, caddy, olds rocket...etc. I agree about the sound of a flatty.
     
  11. hilltopgaragede
    Joined: Apr 8, 2010
    Posts: 159

    hilltopgaragede
    Member
    from Delaware

    I get it and agree with you on those traditional swaps, but a modern day T5 trans that these guys are talking about is far from traditional.


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  12. dsiddons
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,477

    dsiddons
    Member
    from Indiana

    40' Ford is correct width. And the Lincoln gears will work in the box. Mine can cruise at 65mph all day...


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  13. nutbush
    Joined: Jul 7, 2006
    Posts: 258

    nutbush
    Member
    from Texas


    I agree....I have a '39 Ford 3 speed behind my little chevy. Now thats traditional!
     
  14. dsiddons
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,477

    dsiddons
    Member
    from Indiana

    T5? Next disc brakes and a crate motor. Hell lets slap on some radials so it rides better. What the hell lets do a vega steering box to. Tune shocks and f1 mounts? No way in hell! Pete and Jakes Chrome shocks on speedway mounts. 46' Ford wheel won't work now so let's get us a cut down repop 40' ford wheel that looks the part.


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  15. dsiddons
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,477

    dsiddons
    Member
    from Indiana

    Yep! That is. Bet it's a blast to drive to..


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  16. HotRodMicky
    Joined: Oct 14, 2001
    Posts: 1,771

    HotRodMicky
    Member

    Best answer so far

     

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