this is a somewhat ridiculous question but i can't seem to find a definitive answer ... can you swap earlier tubes (in my case 1933/1934) tubes to a later (1940) center section? i know the axles vary in length, but i am doing the 9" axle conversion so i will be getting custom length axles regardless. i guess the question becomes, is the carrier bearing race surface the same distance from the center on all the tubes? it looks like the taper is different on them and i know the earlier differentials have a narrower center sections, but done V8 quickchanges bolt up to all V8 tubes? if they bolt up, won't they fit? thanks in advance. -rob
what is different about the 1934 and lower? keep in mind, axle length won't be an issue because of the conversion to 9" axles. i am reeeeeally trying to use the narrow tubes if at all possible.
yes you can. you need to machine the rear flange to fit around the bearing or scribe it and very carefully grind it out and sand it. then you need to shorten the tube, then you need to change the rear of the driveshaft itself because the spline count is different. http://www.chromeczars.com/board/showthread.php?t=2136&page=15 scroll down the page.
Interchange...all possible but with difficulties of several sorts. I think TT will bolt up with minor clearancing, Flat Ernie has done this. Length will come out wrong as flange to centerline distance in banjo is slightly different. Axle tubes bolt up...wrong. Pattern is the same but rotated by ~10 degrees so spring hangers point wrong. Span between carrier bearings slightly off, I think fixable with some improv. V8 times has published articles on fitting '35-- R&P to the Model 18 banjo, a fairly common thing back when almost no gears were around for these. If you can find one of those articles, it will pretty well call out the differences.
thanks! the torque tube will be a shortened 1940, so i know that will bolt up no problem. the tubes are bare and i will be making my own mounting brackets when i put the 9" flanges on the outside. i assume they can be rotated and i can fix the 10 degree difference with those. do you know about how off the carrier bearing span is? i have a lathe in my shop and could make spacers if need be, right now i am just trying to figure out a starting point and making sure i don't get in over my head.
I think the dif is slight, with the '33-4 banjo casting being slightly narrower. Do not have numbers...those articles would have them. The process has been posted on Fordbarn, but searching there ranges from difficult to impossible.
it sounds like this might be the article i need. does anybody have access to it? Rear End Change 39 5 2002 SEP/OCT 88
Suggest call Sacramento Ford and ask where local EFV-8 Club Chapter meets and find someone in that club with the back issue you need. Heck, maybe the store has the issue. Just brain storming.
With the popularity of using '35 or '36 rear radius rods (bones) in AV8s, one gets the impression that '35 and '36 axle tubes are used with later banjo centers. The discussion above would suggest that doing so would rotate the flanges on the 35/36 axle tubes such that they wouldn't work for attaching the bones. Are the 35/36 tubes not used? or instead are flanges welded on other axle tubes whereever they need to be located for the 35/36 radius rods to attach?
The only time that you would be concerned is if you wanted to retain the stock spring hangers for your installation.. example v8 rear carrier in a 32- 4 with a stock curved spring. If you are not concerned about the spring hanger position there is no advantage of using the earlier 33/4 housings on your 40 banjo even though they are slightly narrower since the tubes must be cut to have the late model ends welded on the tubes anyway. The later 35-48 tubes can be shortened to the desired width and the axle tubes work just fine. The advantage to the later tubes is the larger carrier bearings. If you decide to use the early 33-4 tubes you will have to swap out to the earlier 33-36 carrier bearing.
thought about that. i worked there for about 2-1/2 years, so the V8 people were the first people i contacted. no luck. when we have built AV8's in the past we either use a 1936 center with 1936 tubes or a complete 1940 with custom tabs. lo and behold, after my last post vern tardel called the shop for some parts so i asked the expert. the bearings are different from 1932-1936 and 1937-1948. since the 1937+ bearing race OD is 3.270 and the 1936- OD is 3.250 the later one can be machined to fit the earlier tubes. the bearing ID is 1.680, so aside from the spacing they will work.
Years ago I looked into having the modifications to a banjo rear for the 8" Ford axles with new brakes by those guys up in Idaho. I think they told me that the '36 type bells were easier to deal with because you don't have spring perches swinging around in the lathe as they cut the ends for the new bearings like you would if you are upgrading a later rearend.
you dont need to cut off the ends,just the nub, than enlarge the opening for the lock ring to pass,then you can make the bearing adapter plates that bolt on and using stock backing plates,then make your axles.if you can find the corect side gears,you wont have to use that overpriced posi unit that those guys in idaho want to sell you,or just go with a q c.
"The discussion above would suggest that ..." No, '35-6 are same family as 1948. The late 1932--1934 rear is the funny one...everything the same but not. People have managed to interchange everything but it all takes lots of work. For long time, it was impossible to find any gears for the early one except for the 4.11's found in 99% of them, so they did the substantial work needed to use '35-- 3.78 and 3.54 gears. And I just remembered an odd datum point...one of the Petersen mags covered this modification in a CARTOON in the '50's! Anybody have a handle on that??
just going back through old posts. my buddy finished it and posted a tech post. http://www.chromeczars.com/board/showthread.php?t=5346
Bringing up an old post. Just wondering if I should be able to purchase the $199 conversion kit at hot rod works.. New differential bearings and races required to install 1933-34 axle housings to 1935-48 banjo center section. And unbolt the 46 ring from the 46 carrier, and bolt the 46 ring to the 33 carrier and then reassemble the 33 axles, 33 spiders, 33 axle tubes onto the 46 center section, now using 46 ring and pinion. I will weld my own Model A spring hangers on top of the axle. Any other work that will need to be done?
What will not work? I'm hoping to fit this under a fendered Model A. The 46 center section was converted to a Quick Change.
The '46 banjo center is wider than the 33. The axles won't stick out of the housings far enough to properly position the hubs. We use our conversion bearings for those who are converting to slide in axles, and want to use the 33/34 housings on a later center section, like a quick change. The bearings compensate for the difference in center width. It's possible to use the '46 ring and pinion in the 33 center section. Machine the pinion shaft to accept the 33 pinion bearings and grind the back side / OD of the ring gear to clear the axle housings. Machine a spacer to go between the pinion bearings and the lock nuts. You will have to modify your driveshaft to accept the 6 spline pinion and the extra length of the pinion gear.
Thanks HotRod Works for clearing that up. I'm glad you jumped on here. I actually called your company a few days ago and asked this question, but got a really vague answer that still left me unsure if it would work. I got some young person on the phone that basically went like, "May I speak to someone about converting a later center section to earlier housings" "ok....." "um well, I'm wondering if that will work" "..uh.. yeah" "So if I bought your bearing conversion, I can install a 46 center section into 34 bells?" "..uh.. yeah" "Is there any additional work required to put these pieces together?" "Not really..." "Ok... Do you have them in stock" "...we should...." "um.. ok. Thanks."
Elrod, I'm sorry you feel your phone experience didn't go well. We'll review this and do better next time.
The Jalopy Journal
