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Bangers ...March or die!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bluto, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Man even with the extra day Feb flew by!!

    I think the market for the block is small. I really don't care. We aren't running SCTA or anything else in America. It's stronger that the ''D'' Block. I am only reducing the main and bore sizes to make it useable. From the outside it will look the same as the original.

    The real limit are the number of OHC head setups around. The block will fot most of them. It's basic design is universal.

    Not a business for us ..... just something to do to go racing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
  2. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,199

    RussTee
    Member

    Yes I agree on the point on the rules of the SCTA however with the aging population of our group and the avalibility of repop bodies I would have thought that it would have been logical that we could be able to have a modern vintage type engine and build the car we always wanted.Is the challenge that strong to build a traditional car with what we had? How many Donavan motors are being sold? They are probably not that pricy given that it is a modern brand new motor.
    Yes we need people like Bluto who just want to go racing and develop and extend what these type of motors can do .....start your motors!!!!
     
  3. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,656

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    "March or die" - Not "Banger Death March"?

    -Dave
     
  4. BCCHOPIT
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,586

    BCCHOPIT
    Member

    Next year :)
     
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  5. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Thanks Bluto!

    Here is the banger link list .


    For the HAMB banger newbies, here are some links to a lot of banger info:

    Flat Ernie maintains the monthly link list. Every month is listed:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=161498



    Banger basics. another info link list:

    http://www.fordgarage.com/

    http://www.billsbangers.com

    http://www.plucks329s.org/index.htm

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=251717

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=42480

    Post #105 of link below shows flywheel lightening dimensions
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=6

    Model B rod bearing insert numbers
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6992484#post6992484


    Engine tuning with a Vacuum gauge
    http://www.centuryperformance.com/tuning-with-a-vacuum-gauge-spg-148.html

    Adjusting dual Strombergs:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6638461#post6638461

    Helpful Model A tools and tips:

    http://www.maurer-markus.ch/ford_a/tipps.index.en.html

    Elrod's stuck head tech:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218487

    Model A generator to alternator conversion:

    http://ejwhitneyco.com/automotive.html

    Gear ratio / speed and RPM calculator:

    http://www.accuautoparts.com/calculatorfin.jsp


    Model A master cylinder mounting bracket ideas:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...73#post4953173

    Go here to read the 1931 edition of Harry Ricardo's book "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine"

    http://www.scribd.com/full/40610101?access_key=key-w2bcjicdancrnxypd05


    Chevy Banger Stuff

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=463465

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/22469332/The-High-Speed-Internal-Combustion-Engine-Ricardo-1931

    Post 198 starts a great discussion of the shape of a flat head combustion chamber

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=10

    Maybe these links should be posted early in each months meeting.

    If anyone knows of more, please post them.
     
  6. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    "March or die" is the motto of the FFI :)
     
  7. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member



    Don't forget about the 5 main "A" engine that is being developed here in California by Terry Burtz

    http://www.modelaengine.com/


    .
     
  8. Call me a dummy... "What's FFI?":confused:
     
  9. "Furry Fellows Int'l"?
     
  10. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,656

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    French Foreign Legion - I'm guessing the "I" means International.

    -Dave
     
  11. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Mark ....

    Given some of your backround I'm surprised you don't know this..

    Here is a video clue:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=582dUJQPuqU

    Craz.....

    There have been several 5-main Ford A/Bs

    I chose this one because it's the earliest I've seen and we must use a pre 1931 design to run some places.

    Also Terry Burtz has been working a very long time on the I have spoken to him several times and it is nice except for two things. 1) It's not done 2)When it is done it will be a Model A with all kinds of extra stuff to get in the way Like Cam bearing bosses, valve pockets, lifter bores. Like that... Items I don't need. It doesn't have the internal main support this block has. It's hard to see just what a wonderful piece this is without it sitting in frount of you. It is a race block built specifically for OHC conversion only.

    No question the Burtz block will be great. I just like this better!

    If the SCTA's 'rules' were worldwide there would be very few Bugattis racing. As most have new replacement parts, blocks and crankcases
     
  12. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Right Mr Cheese!! ...... sorry the "I" was a typo unless your French.:)

    But I am sure yu knew that as well.:cool:
     
  13. And I'm supposed to guess your typo's??? Hahaha... !

    I like the "Furry Fellows International"

    Med check.... :eek::D
     
  14. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Bluto,

    I wasn't offering this as a replacement for yours, With out a doubt yours will be much better suited for your needs.

    If I thought I had a chance at getting one of your "short" blocks, I would love to have one for one of my Hall SOHC heads.

    I was just offering RussTee a answer to his comments about nobody offering any alternates to the stock ford blocks.


    .
     
  15. So anyone know how Terry Burtz is getting along with the new motor? I've seen castings and cranks but nothing machined yet? Just curious as to when I can fling myself into poverty and order one...
     
  16. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,483

    97
    Member

    He has an email list, after a few attempts (requests) I am on the list. He sends irregular updates but they always see to say the same thing....

    To paraphrase.

    " The foundry cast ten blocks, but nine were useless and the tenth one has faults. So we will cut it up and work out how to make a better job of casting them."
    He always refers to his website but....

    His website http://www.modelaengine.com/ has never, EVER worked for me, maybe you need a further suffix to the basic site address or a secret code ....dunno .

    I wonder How serious is he, how real the possibility is of a block becoming available to the market. and/or how much technology and real skill has disappeared over time .
    Given the number of different blocks that were allegedly designed and/or cast by amateurs in the 30s , why does a large commercial foundry have continuous casting problems....if it is in the patternmaking then surely the foundry would either get a better pattern maker involved , use their own patternmaker or at least refuse to cast them until it is fixed properly.
     
  17. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Now there is a positive attitude.

    With that kind of thinking, nothing would ever get done.

    .
     
  18. I think it's a huge investment (pun intended) to cast something like an engine block.

    And to me, the math never really worked.

    A block crank and rods for under $3000?

    That gets people interested... but it doesn't make a sound business out of it.

    If he was independantly wealthy, and this was his hobby... it would be done, and we'd have engine blocks being sold.

    I don't think that is the case.

    I hope it does happen though!

    Sam
     
  19. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,914

    noboD
    Member

    Mr. Bluto, what is the weight of your block compared to a stock block?
     
  20. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,483

    97
    Member

    No need to be sarcastic, I wasn't being negative about anything nor did I say he shouldn't make the block or even attempt to , I am ,like many others I suspect, waiting with suspenseful anticipation.

    The website doesn't work ( for me anyway) and yet it is continually promoted in both his emails and other places ( including here today by yourself) . Are you able to get onto the website???

    If the foundry was taking him seriously improvements surely could/would be made and applied far more quickly .

    I do understand the complexities of casting a engine block and the expense that is my point... if the foundry has a problem it is either their methods or the patterns, either way improvements/review should be made before more (bad) castings are made....

    It seems the idea has had far more publicity than momentum.... which is no doubt probably due to time and money restrictions, I have no argument with that,most of us are probably in the same boat these days , but if the same castings keep failing again and again, the foundry should offer some improvement instead of just taking the man's money over and over. or maybe I just get the same newsletter/email over and over????
    With all the development that has gone into this it is hard to see how $3000 or $3500 is feasible.
     
  21. Bluto and I know a fella who runs a fabrication and restoration shop. He's got an engine in a 20's vintage racecar, that he represents as a Frontenac T. It has an alloy block that is made in the UK and is marketed by Zakiras garage in Cincinnati. It looks like a T; but has no provision for a cam in the block. Last I saw Zakiras wanted $7500 for such an item. I understand he has a cylinder head that was produced years ago by George Parker. He's been running the car a number of years in vintage races. It's got a "ton" of power.
     
  22. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

  23. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus


    Doug, The block is in Poland not here. I've no idea.

    Our block is easy to scan and printing make casting a bit easy As with the heads we have friends happy to do something interesting to their customers the range of their printers

    I'll know when we get home in a couple months.

    Mark, Having read my emails for years you should be used to typos:D

    FFI was the resistance...... I think
     
  24. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,199

    RussTee
    Member

    When does something become period speed gear? It seems to me now that the Donavan motor was being produced before some of the younger members here were born (gee showing my age now) we tend to forget when things were made. Should we put a date on period then we could have post period speedgear maybe period hotrods should be a class of vintage cars?
     
  25. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,483

    97
    Member

    They reel in horror at the suggestion Rusty. Well the local NZ VCC branch does anyway, head office is in your neck of the woods, perhaps you should make the suggestion there.Take your T!!
    Half of the cares on their runs are more modified than your T... I saw a 39 Dodge with a holden motor... the owner says he will change it when he can get the Dodge motor done???
    Specials ..an aircraft motor in a Bedford truck frame, and a hand made body....accepted, but an early Ford with the fenders removed and twin carbs is a hot rod , even if cycle fenders are fitted?????

    I regularly tell a couple of friends that the Model A s in their club with aftermarket heads, twin carbs , alternators and 16" wires are hot rods..... to say nothing of finned heads on flathead V8s , and cars with widened wheels and radial tires, etc etc.

    Don't even ask about how 1972 Toyota Crowns and Trekkas fit the picture.
    :eek:
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
  26. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,199

    RussTee
    Member

    My paddle arm is getting sore now but after 40 years of hotrodders telling me my car is not a hot rod and 40 years of the vintage guys comeing down on me its my turn to do a little stirring. lucky were the original rodders who just went and built a car to go fast and look good be it Henry Ford setting a land speed record on ice in order to sell cars or some guy in the late 40s or 50s trying to impress the guys and his girl with a jaloppy built from cheap recovered parts.
     
  27. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,483

    97
    Member



    Well , the day I met you at MCM, I had walked around for a couple of hours and back in those days yours was the ONLY real traditional hot rod I saw there..... OK maybe Noel's (silver) flatty roadster ....but I had seen that the day before and done a tune up for him.
    There was bugger all else that I would have called a real traditional hot rod.
    It was the first time I had seen a Peerless rad surround , Fatman wheel, and a front axle like that in the flesh, and the carbs on your display had me fizzing for weeks..... maybe I had led a sheltered life??

    Please yourself , cause you sure can't please everybody else.
     
  28. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,199

    RussTee
    Member

    HaHa that was my roadster my roadster pickup is another kettle of fish b4 powered 27 RP on a model a chassis currently changing from sidevalve to Rutherford overhead conversion with one of Pats front plates overdrive and quickchange yep the winfields will be going on and a Rutherford sump the 34 front axel is in (could not find a 32 heavy) and the bent spokes are on a few hardly noticeable body mods and tweaks to the motor and she will be away and hopefully see me out.
     
  29. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,656

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    "Period" is kinda different from "vintage". Parts built pre-1982 (my birth year - and I'm not even one of the younger members anymore!) are certainly "vintage", but they're not "period" for a Model A Ford. Period, to me, means contemporary with peak usage of an item. Thus, a period speed part for a Model A Ford is probably from a 1928-1942 design; but a vintage one (if we define "vintage" the same as "antique"), could have been designed as recently as 1987.

    -Dave
     
  30. No problem getting on the website but it's had no updates for a while. I was on the mailing list years ago but must have dropped off - old email address probably.

    Well hopefully something will come of it - anticipation abundance here too.
     

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