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Technical ***Banger Thanksgiving: November 2014 Banger Meet***

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jiminy, Nov 2, 2014.

  1. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 950

    johnneilson
    Member

    Bluto,
    Yes, well aware of the "task" at El Mo.
    My statement is from knowing the airflow through this head and other deficiencies with it.
    I do have a "new" head in the works, it was started some years ago and never finished.
    From what I can tell it was to be SOHC.
    I do not have the room in the car to make it so, it will be push rod.
    I have already made the cam larger to get more initial lift on cam and reduce the R/A ratio to something reasonable.
    A new block is in the works to accommodate so I may take two bullets to Bonneville next year.

    John
     
  2. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,133

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Just curious John,
    What speed would you be happy with at EL MO?

    .
     
  3. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,819

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    For those few of you who care about nonFord engines. Here is a picture of the Dodge Bros. with the injectors mocked up, that Zenon took this weekend., Not to sure where the metering 5FBD12DA-4A00-4467-AA84-B94C24454243_zps7dfma4pe.jpg block will go at this time. But it will go somewhere.
     
    fur biscuit, BCCHOPIT and Crazydaddyo like this.
  4. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 950

    johnneilson
    Member

    closer to the record, within 10.
     
    gwhite likes this.
  5. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,133

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    What is the record?

    .
     
  6. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 950

    johnneilson
    Member

  7. Our thoughts are with you, Jim!

    JK
     
  8. nitro29
    Joined: May 26, 2005
    Posts: 66

    nitro29
    Member

    Hey Richard, Are you allowed to weld, TIG or MIG? watch out or you might get Fried. I have one NO more welding for me apart from Gas! ROGER
     
  9. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,819

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The Doctor is pretty much against any electric welding or plasma cutting. As well as messing with the distributor on a running engine. So no setting the timing. I did have the torch out this week.
     
  10. In 1923, Harry Ricardo wrote a book called "The Internal Combustion Engine" (Glasgow: Blackie). Ricardo wrote three other editions, ending with the fourth in 1953, called the "High Speed Internal Combustion Engine". I think each of the last three books had a whole chapter on exhaust extraction design.

    It's good reading. It seems the basic premise is to design an exhaust system wherein the previous exhaust charge tends to pull the succeeding charge along. I think you'll see that there are many variables that come down to the volume and velocity of the charges. Ricardo provides much mathematical information for exhaust designers to come up with a system which fit the needs of a particular engine operation. It has been my scant experience that the phenomenon works best at higher speeds ( i.e. 4500 to 5000 r.p.m. and above). However, a lot of neat looking exhaust systems are constructed by and for those of us who languish in the lower speeds.
     
  11. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,966

    noboD
    Member

    The AACA library has the first of Ricardo's books. Copies can be had pretty reasonably on disc or paper.
     
  12. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,205

    RussTee
    Member

    Thanks guysI now have a design so now the suck it and see begins my biggest problem is driving onthe left means the steering box is in the way not much room to run the pipes
     

  13. I just thought of another article that I have seen about exhaust extraction. It seems that Harry Hosterman, the creator of the HAL heads and engines, discovered for himself the phenomenon when running one of his engines on the Dyno in his shop. The bookkeeper/secretary had been camlaining about the fumes in the shop. Hosterman rigged up a longer exhaust system to vent to the outside. He found that there was a slight increase of the engine power. He then embarked in a series of "cut and try" for the exhaust system so as to end up with a marked increase of power at higher speeds. So...I guess when it comes to exhaust systems, length and size matter.
     
  14. Urb Stair writes about the HAL exhaust experience in his book "Auto Racing Memories" He also describes the pairing of the cylinders after the individual pipes entered the 4" exhaust pipe. I think that pairing was first tried on a flat head 4. They found that a straight cut exhaust pipe end gave a slight improvement over the popular angle cut end.
     
  15. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,205

    RussTee
    Member

    This is the way that the master Ed winfield got so much performance out of his builds look at the intake manifold on the two up two down motor
     
  16. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Megaphones make the system longer too
     
  17. Image is blocked at work, so I'll just hazard a guess...

    If you can find a copy of Dema Elgins class notes, he goes on at length, about timing of intake and exhaust pulses. I know you can find the calculations on how to build a tunnel ram intake (how to calculate a sine curve), pretty certain they are on hamb if you look.. Exhaust gasses can be encouraged to act as enxtractor through tuning at a specific length, sorta the same idea as intake runner length.

    As to Mr. Winfield, the gentleman dreamed with is eyes open.

     
  18. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,819

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I just thought I would give you Ford guys another thing to wish for. Dodge mains. mains.jpg 001.JPG
     
  19. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,966

    noboD
    Member

    Rich and others, 100 years ago today the Dodge brothers built their first car. 370 from then until December 31 1914, then 45,000 in 1915 setting a record for most cars built the first year of production.
     
  20. A 4 bolt, 5 main girdle for a Ford A or b is somewhat easy to come buy. It's that five main crank that becomes very expensive!
     
  21. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,819

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    5 mains in a Dodge are easy from the factory. And they are part of the crankcase. Not a girdle. The Dodge 5 main crank is easy to get. A good one like the picture runs around $2300
     
  22. Also, when considering a tuned exhaust for a Ford four banger (or for that matter, any engine) you've got to remember the firing order. The 1243 of the Ford should best collected by combining the the 1 and 2 primaries. Then the 4 and 3, bringing bother into a main exhaust pipe.
     
  23. Yup! $2000 and change is what I paid Joe Panek of Roto-Faze to grind a 5 main crank out of a solid piece of billet. It was easy, but it weren't cheap!
     
  24. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,819

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Mines from Crower. Didn't know Joe made cranks.
     
  25. My Dodge had 7 bearings... but it also has a couple of extra pistons to go with it :D
     
  26. fourd
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 65

    fourd
    Member
    from Colorado

    I could use some assistance here with my Kiwi Quickchange set-up. My rear spring is not aligned with the crossmember. It appears the rear end needs to move forward 1/2" and or rotate forward about 5-10 degrees. See last picture showing spring. Any ideas on a fix or what I might have missed?
    From front to back- A motor in stock position, Clings adapter to 37 transmission with 32-34 rear bearing retainer, stock torque tube with shortened shaft for Kiwi Model A Quickchange.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1416179831.597965.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1416179848.015222.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1416179860.197756.jpg


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  27. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,819

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not a big Dodge six cylinder guy, but I didn't know they had a seven main engine. What year was that?
     
  28. '28 Victory Six- 7 mains, hydraulic brakes, all-steel Budd body, and fully-machined head (completely different engine from the Std 6 or DA)!

    Mine is stock... but I DO have a spare engine to have some fun with in the future :D
     

  29. I had a similar problem with a Kiwi and just the pried spring in. After it was seated it didn't appear to be stressed. Not sure how much misalignment there was. Did you contact them and describe your problem ?
     
  30. I recently read of a Chrysler 4 speed fully synchronized close ratio trans from about 1930 31. Do they exist ?
     

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