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banger OHV conversions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by gas4blood, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. gas4blood
    Joined: Nov 19, 2005
    Posts: 787

    gas4blood
    Member
    from Kansas

    I am interested in an OHV conversion for my '32 Ford woodie. I know Charlie Yapp makes an iron two port Riley, an outfit in Cal. makes an aluminum 4 port Riley and an Ardun head, and some guy makes a real nice conversion set up for putting an old chevy head on the A/B block. The Miller is also done out on the left coast too. Any others available? And most importantly, any feedback on quality and reliability?

    On the old front, I have located the rough castings for a Riley twin cam set-up. Unmachined, as cast by old man Riley himself. One complete engine exists, magnificent! All that is there is the rough 16 valve head, and two aluminum cam towers. The other parts that were cast, oddly enough, could still be cast from the original molds. They still exist! This job is way beyond my ability, but the two cam Riley would sure be cool! I keep that thought in the back of my head, as I ponder what to do, take a run at'em, or let'em sit for a while longer.

    On the got it in the garage front, I actually have ownership of a Roof 16 valve OHV conversion for a T. Two large intake ports, 8 exhaust ports. All kinds of exposed monkey motion valve gear above, no valve covers. My '26 T speedster may get that head, but it requires a total re-doing of the lower end and oiling to live more than a few short hours. Or less, depending on my throttle hand. (no foot throttle on a T).

    Any input on these conversions quality and usefulness is appreciated. I want to put my termite delight on the road regular, it's fun stock, but I'd like to be able to get out of the way of maniacs on the road if need be. It is surprising how decent the mechanical brakes are, but they gotta go when the speed goes up.

    gas4blood
     
    out plowing likes this.
  2. labelkills
    Joined: Jan 25, 2005
    Posts: 339

    labelkills
    Member

    H&H flatheads is the guys from Cal who make the Ardun head and the Riley conversion. Pretty amazing stuff. Too rich for me though.

    I have their card if you need info to get ahold of them.

    sorry I dont have any consumer reports for you.
    I have been wondering the same thing.
     
  3. HOLY SHIT!!!

    sent ya a pm
     
  4. Wild Turkey
    Joined: Oct 17, 2005
    Posts: 903

    Wild Turkey
    Member

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  5. Why has this never been covered before? Not even in Dan Iandola's book.

    Are you sure its a Riley?

    Gonna need pics, pics and more pics!
     
    out plowing likes this.
  6. well, we all know that when riley got shut down by the IRS alot of stuff was just hocked in the trash...maybe this is something that snuck through unnoticed.
     
  7. This is some photo's from the H&H stand at Pleasanton....

    Cheers,

    Drewfus
     

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    fartman likes this.
  8. gas4blood
    Joined: Nov 19, 2005
    Posts: 787

    gas4blood
    Member
    from Kansas

    Hi, it is a Riley. No doubt about it. I reckon the Riley name on the cam covers is part of the ID, plus the fact that this stuff was bought long ago from the right people. You are right, it isn't in the book. But it is real, I have touched it myself. The patterns are on the wall behind it, or at least some of them. The rest are stashed away. The intact engine has a fabricated crankcase. It is incredible! It was purchased in '59, I believe. Riley did a lot of stuff, so it isn't a surprise that it isn't in a book. I think it may be half-way mentioned, but not sure. I was gonna take pics, my danged digital shot craps in the battery dept. so I'll have to get 'em later, it is a fairly long drive to get there. The engine now lives in a table. :( But at least it isn't in a corner of a shop, buried under crap now. There is a lot of weird unknown stuff in the world, so I am not at all surprised at things like this. For example, I am now looking at pictures of a 1912 Indian OHV engine that has hemi heads, a factory one off job. The patterns exist for it, too! Only one was built. It is wicked looking! No, it isn't mine. I did get to closely examine it, though. Neat stuff! I'll try to round up some pics of this junk. Maybe I'll try to figure out how to get pics posted and put some in of my 16 valve Roof head.



     
  9. is an A or a B (i think you said rocker arms?) if you are really up to some machine work, Bruce Crower has a B that he converted to DOHC...really cool. look forward to seeing some pictures.
     
  10. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Why not a HAL?
    Nothing says IT like a D.O. on a B block :D

    For you Riley guys....... Yes those are Riley carbs!

    Good fun with just a push.......
     

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  11. Elmo Rodge
    Joined: May 12, 2002
    Posts: 2,007

    Elmo Rodge
    Member

    Except for maybe a full H.A.L. Wayno
     
  12. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus


    Wayno....We're talking '32 not late model ('35)
     
  13. gas4blood
    Joined: Nov 19, 2005
    Posts: 787

    gas4blood
    Member
    from Kansas

    No, the Roof (or Laural Roof) is a head for a Model T Ford. Not many around.





     
  14. AV8-Rider
    Joined: Jan 31, 2002
    Posts: 909

    AV8-Rider
    Member

    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

    .

    I've also wondered as gas4blood on what available kit is the most usefull to buy.
    May depend on what else you can/want to do to the engine regarding bottom end etc. I guess.

    I've heard there is scarse with Dyno material on this subject. Anyone got anything here. Saw one website on some flathead 4 tests but no OHV.

    This stuff makes me SMILE.

    The brain is on Record, so let it flow guys

    Paul
     
  15. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

  16. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    On the late model conversion, I've heard that late Olds V8, 350-455 types, are a lot closer to A bore spacing...and aren't early Olds same bore spacing as late?? How about a "Rocket 44"??
     
    klazurfer likes this.
  17. scarylarry
    Joined: Apr 24, 2001
    Posts: 2,541

    scarylarry
    Member

    Bruce, interesting link.Too bad I'm no where near smart enough to actually do what was described for the conversion!
     
  18. 4-port Riley
    Joined: Oct 20, 2005
    Posts: 303

    4-port Riley
    Member

    I highly recommend the Miller. It is a nicely made, nicely machined unit and very reliable. The new ones put out more power than the originals too. The Riley's put too much heat thru the exhaust and can crack blocks when run real hard, I know, I run two of them.

    Never even heard of a rumor of a Riley 2-cammer. Does it fit a B block or ??? Please e-mail me at jimb3@earthlink.net
     
  19. The Laurel Roof 16 Valve Puegot Type Overhead valve conversions for the model T came in three different models: "A", "B", and "C".

    The A, and B type are 16 valve heads, with rocker arm actuation (a very flimsy set up as you know) I believe that the exhaust ports come out the top left of the block on both set ups (drivers side) Both set ups have 2 intakes and 8 exhaust ports. They were originally designed to utilize stock T valves (1") all the way around. The valves are all set up side by side in a vertical plane (not canted like today). The type A has the sparkplugs set in between the 4 valves, but this system was discarded (due constantly cooking the spark plugs) for the type B which has the plugs set down on the side of the head. (i had to make a call to confirm this)

    The Type C is a completely different bugger all together. It is a DOHC 16 valve head and is a true cross flow head, also very rare (nye unobtanium) I think it had 4 intake and 4 exhaust ports. The valves are set up also in a vertical fashion. (Also from the same call) The type C cam in both rocker arm and cam versions, the main diffence still being that the type C had the aforementioned 4 intake and 4 exhaust ports.

    Roof Also made an earlier 16 Valve conversion were they attempted to utilize the stock intake and exhaust ports as exhaust only ports and have the attached head have intakes only. This system suffered the same failure that the later Miller SOHC set up for the model A had in that stock intake ports were unable to be effectively cooled and cracked.

    Roof built an 8 valve conversion with 2 intake ports and 3 exhaust ports (makes a really cool sound on a straight pipe.) They were a little low on power as they had a very low compression (atleast on the ones i have seen) but many were milled all the way down past the water jackets to get power out of them.

    if you ever get a chance to hold a Roof head then a Rajo or a Frontenac you will find that the roof is damn near 1/2 the weight of either the other 2. (don't know if it has less metal, or poorer metal).

    (sorry for not properly checking all my sources and confusing any one)
     
  20. This'll be a Roof A or B type then? And the T that it's in with all sorts of Laurel bits,


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  21. TvanD
    Joined: Jun 15, 2005
    Posts: 76

    TvanD
    Member
    from Newton IA

    Ithink it was in Dean Batchlor's book where he shows a Ford B block with what he called a # port Olds head. Any one know more about this?
     
  22. That is the model B, as noted in my edit of my previous comments...

    looks awesome...wouldn't happen to be yours would it? do you know what those carbs are? and is that a vacuum tank on the dash?
     
  23. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Chevy head had 2 intake ports, the Olds 3 port head was used for souping 1920's Chevies--that's all I know, no idea of years and models.
     
  24. The Chevy Heads from the 20's came in 2 varieties 1 port intake, 2 exhaust and 2 port intake, 2 exhaust.

    The Olds heads have 2 intake and 3 exhaust.

    (personally, i am pretty sure you could build a Chevy or an olds head that would give any of the traditional over head conversions a real run for thier money)

    If you want to read a great period book about racing early sprint cars and outlaws, get the book about John Gerber entitled "Outlaw Sprint Car Driver" it is well worth it, and has great period photo's as well as how to build a 20's style dirt tracker out of a 4 banger Chevy. This book predominatly covers dirt track racing in the Midwest (for all you out there)

    If you are looking for a similar book about racing on the West Coast get "The Bobby, The Babe and Me" it is all about racing up and down the West Coast. in the 20's covering big cars and some neat midget stuff.

    If you want a period historical about a single track get a copy of "Legion Ascot Speedway".

    All these books cover 20's and 30's dirt track racing.
     
  25. Nope - sorry, not mine, but I think he is in the T owners club over here, although I haven't seen him or the car for a couple of years. He's the greybeard resting on the rear wheel.
    Those bronze carbs are gourgeous aren't they? Haven't a clue what they were though. The tank was some kind of vacuum oiler arrangement - needed a few days crawling all over that to get the details and as my humble flivver was one of a good hundred there, didn't get too much time to take notes!
     
  26. flatheadpete
    Joined: Oct 29, 2003
    Posts: 9,437

    flatheadpete
    Member
    from Burton, MI

    Thanks....now I've got juice on my computer.
     
  27. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 25,920

    The37Kid
    Member

    Fur Biscut, There was an early ROOF Head at Hershey this year, we all stood around and tried to figure out how it worked with only one set of ports, but I figured it was like a Riley and used the stock side valves. ROOF also made a SOHC setup for use on the Liberty 8 and added a supercharger in 1925.:D
     

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  28. gas4blood
    Joined: Nov 19, 2005
    Posts: 787

    gas4blood
    Member
    from Kansas

    I don't know the carbs at all, but they do appear to be barrel valve carbs as opoposed to butterfly type throttle. I once had a Thor motorycle with barrel valve carb, and lots of early Indians had 'em. My Roof is a 16 valve B. The one in the picture is a bit later than mine, the black car has the rockers joined together, mine has 'em separate. Some of these had nickel plated rocker towers, etc, so they can be real eye candy. There was also a BB that had slightly bigger valves. Northwest Vintage Speedsters website has some pics of that kind of stuff. http://www.nwvs.org/ The C head is awesome, huge oval exhaust ports, etc. It was a straight OHV, but had an optional 2 cam set-up, as I recall. The Tulsa Model T club has some real cool cars, lots of do-it-yerself neat things there! http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/MTFCTulsa/index.htm

    It costs a lot more to make an 4 into a work of fast art, compared to a cut and dried modern engine. But the results are sure fun!
     
  29. ok, time for stupid american questions. The front axle on that T is Upside down and those aren't T spindles are they...any one out there up on english ford front ends, i have heard that they are different from the american ones, lowered spindles, etc. Those spindles look alot like the chevy 490 spindles i run on my T which gives a 1" drop over stock ones. any help and insight...
     
  30. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 25,920

    The37Kid
    Member


    I don't think the axle is upside down, but the stub axles are higher on the spindle body, that is a European item. I've seen them in a period Ford parts catalog.
     

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