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Technical Back to steering . .

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by PetesPonies, Feb 6, 2021.

  1. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    Yours is certainly a clean install. The SBF just sits so differently, mount wise, than a SBC. But sitting the steering box on top of the frame seems to be where I'm leaning, as yours is. The length of the setback, for the fan position has been figured and why the engine is sitting where it is in the pictures. But nothing is welded yet, so easily moved. Do you have a radiator suggestion? I'm thinking that should be next, then I can finalize the engine position.
     
  2. prpmmp
    Joined: Dec 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,092

    prpmmp
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  3. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,914

    alchemy
    Member

    Building a hot rod is just a giant flowchart. You have an engine, so where does it fit? First you need the radiator for front to back and up down clearances of the fan. Then you can worry about all the rest of the flowchart.

    You can't move the radiator forward for fan clearance (too ugly), but you can move the firewall back. Seems you've done that already. Do you know where'd the fan will fit up/down, and make sure it will clear the bottom hose bib? Might make a big difference if the fan seems to be cutting through the hose.

    The motor mounts can be built a million different ways, so don't let that be the deciding factor. I recommend looking at Chassis Engineering motor mounts for options, and understand you can cut your own plates to scoot them forward or back to clear a steering box.

    Last, the exhaust can be modified as well to fit around steering if need be. I'd do the steering before the exhaust every time.

    My little bro has an A coupe (full fendered with all the stock dimension frame and sheetmetal) with Vega steering and a SBF. His firewall is recessed, he uses stock Ford exhaust manifolds, and has a mechanical fan. It has a U joint or two, but it can be done.
     
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  4. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

  5. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    That's basically what I want, stock specs, like if it was say a 1962 build. I flipped the firewall, then reflipped the middle so it looks right. As I said above, would just prefer to keep a side steer . . but the Vega is an option, as I do have it. I keep asking . . how about a radiator suggestion? That should be my next buy.
     
  6. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    Here's some pics from today. I can flip the engine mount and get the mounting point to change by 1" . .front or back. Not a huge change, but could be enough to make a difference. I showed a pic. I then sat a steering column in and put the Toyota box on top of the frame, with the Hipo Manifolds. I scan see how that could work. But the Toyota box is kinda fat . . keep hearing the Corvair is thinner. However, looking at where the pitman would hang . still looks like it would work with the stock front axle.
     

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  7. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 11,650

    AHotRod
    Member

    Pete,
    You have got to help us help you brother.

    I see no overall photos of the truck, I have no idea what radiator shell your using, I have no idea where you 'plan' to mount it, I have no idea what 'height' of a radiator you need, I have no idea if your going to install A/C or not, I see NO suspension bolted up, ......... I've seen no interior pictures to see the seating position, steering column located ..... transmission????

    And NO, that Toyota steering box way to large and ugly.
     
    Tman likes this.
  8. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 11,650

    AHotRod
    Member

  9. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    There is no truck . .yet. I'm doing a wood cab anyway. I have the cowl, the frame, front axle, etc. I have said many times in this thread, it's a stock look, an early 60s type build. AC ???? What pussy needs AC in their Model A ?? LOL Seriously, this is a bare bone Model A, completely different with wood cab, metal bed, etc. But what I'm asking should make no difference where the engine sets. I build cars . .I do restorations. I taught Auto for 20 years. I'm not lost, I didn't sell shoes . But I have never done a Model A. So I never had to decide where to put things. I ask because there are many who have already done it and gone through the same questions I have. people ask me stuff everyday about how to do restorations .. . I enjoys helping. So now I want some help.
     
  10. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

  11. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,914

    alchemy
    Member

    I only have experience with Walker radiators, but they aren't available anymore. Brassworks has very high recommendations. I hate the looks of aluminum radiators on a traditional car.
     
  12. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    I understand that , , but the shell covers a lot and they cam be painted black.
     
  13. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,914

    alchemy
    Member

    Then you understand the difference between your priorities and mine. I have been known to be obsessive on things. Opening a hood and seeing an aluminum radiator would be just as bad to me as seeing an HEI on the engine. Or some Dolphin gauges in the dash. Or heartbeat graphics on the paint. I ain't gonna do it.
     
    Ned Ludd, RICH B and X38 like this.
  14. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    I don't like an HEI distributor either . . I just don't get upset with a painted black radiator :) Now left aluminum color . . not for an old school look.
     
  15. brading
    Joined: Sep 9, 2019
    Posts: 515

    brading
    Member

    " AHotRod " Must say that is a neat solution.
     
  16. I would take closer look at a Vega cross steer set-up; not early '60s; but the sbf already negates that a bit. We always get the chassis up on wheels at ride height with the body (cowl in your case) position the radiator, put some bars on the engine that sit on the rails, add a pump and fan on the front, hang the trans off a bar on the frame; and then work out engine position, steering, exhaust, basic seating, etc; followed by permanent mounts. Just seems to work out better than blocking stuff off the floor.
    A F-1 box would be more '60s and we have put them in around Buick, Olds, Caddy, Chev, and Hemi mills so I would think one would work with your sbf, too.
     
  17. cfmvw
    Joined: Aug 24, 2015
    Posts: 917

    cfmvw
    Member

    There is also a thread about installing the steering box on top of the frame using a VW Bus steering box mount; some good ideas and information that might help you out.
     
  18. woodsnwater
    Joined: Apr 4, 2016
    Posts: 498

    woodsnwater
    Member
    from North Al.

  19. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    You don't know your SBFs. They appeared in 1962. So no, that doesn't negate the early 60s build. Matter of fact, it's the focus of it.
     
  20. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    yeah I've seen them mentioned before, expensive to find.
     
  21. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,914

    alchemy
    Member

    Ha! You sure have your mind made up. Why do you come here and ask questions? Sounds like you know all the answers.

    Hot rods aren't simple bolt-together like Mustangs are.
     
    Tman likes this.
  22. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    You make no sense. Do you understand questions? I need someone to talk me into what engine I use? I can't bring up a fact that was reported wrong by another poster? And that bothers you? So . I have been getting a lot of help here. I have responded to a lot of people here. I appreciate a lot of the help so far, it has steered me in the right direction. I hope they continue to help. You can read back through all my posts in this thread and you will see I haven't wavered one bit from my initial post and what I want, what I have, what I could use. However, I wish to hear nothing more from you . .you just want to start trouble. Far enough?
     
  23. junkman8888
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 811

    junkman8888
    Member

    In case you haven't noticed you are starting to get flamed and it's because you're not listening to the advice you've been offered.
    irishsteve mentioned modifying the driver's side motor mount plate to clear the steering box, in post #36 (that's right, your picture) you can see if you simply flip that motor mount plate over you can move the engine mount forward around two inches, if you need to move it more you can modify the plate or make a replacement.
    sdroadster talked about mounting the radiator, front cover, water pump and pulleys to make sure everything clears.
    richb mentioned bars bolted to the engine and transmission so the powertrain can be easily moved as needed (sometimes you have to move the engine over an inch or so to clear the steering box/steering linkage, hard to do when the engine block is balanced on a wheel rim and some blocks of wood)
    ahotrod mentioned mounting the front axle/spring in place to help figure out the bones/steering linkage, both components you'll have to work around as they can't be moved. You should also install crank pulleys and pan to make sure they don't interfere with the drag linl/tie rod.
    Having looked through my collection of how-to articles, you may want to look at Feb-May 2004 Street Rodder, which talks about the problems unique to the small-block Ford, also you might want to check out Ford Racing Performance Parts, at one time they offered a front cover/waterpump/pulley kit that would shorten the overall engine length to around 27 inches.
     
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  24. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    Of course I'm listening. But I have set my parameters. I don't think you guys read for comprehension. I think you should go back and read my replies. This is ridiculous. I don't need, do I want a special front water pump. I don't need it, that is why I recessed the firewall. You, bringing that up as a reason I am not listening, is ludacris. I have said from the beginning, I have plenty of room up front. Side steering causes no issues with the oil pan, plus I have 3 versions I could use. We are into things, because you want to bring them up, that is not what I am asking. I am asking about steering. I have a radiator ordered, thanks to a poster ( didn't get exactly the same because of the top inlet placement ). That will allow me to mount it , but I'm good up there. I have said and will once more, very thanksful to the people who have helped. Helped is the key word.
     
  25. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    Here's some new pics. This is the Toyota box . and I agree one a bit smaller would look better and offer even more clearance. But the point of this is to show that it looks like this would work. It's clamped in place and tilted somewhat how I would mount it, if I were to do so. Pitman arm placement seems good. With the Hipo manifold, there's clearance ( and this is where more could be with a smaller box ). I have a steering column sitting in there just for giggles, to see how it would set. I may use a universal plain column you can buy for $100 or an old truck column. But , to me, seems to work. Thoughts? Corvair is the one mentioned most hard to find it seems. Any other smaller ones? I have a '64 pickup , which was the last year of solid axles. They have side steer and the box isn't too, too, wide. But looking at it on my truck and seeing it in the A is different.
     

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  26. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 1,011

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Goodness, thou art a saucy fellow. These guys have done it a hundred times and are trying to help you. If a particular piece of advice doesn't apply to your case, nod, file it away for later, and move on. Getting bitchy about the advice you're getting isn't going to make anyone else want to help you.
     
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  27. redoxide
    Joined: Jul 7, 2002
    Posts: 672

    redoxide
    Member
    from Scotland

    Just to complicate things for you , consider fitting a Series 2 or series 3 RHD land rover steering box .

    Dont panic, the way the land rover steering box is configured in a land rover the pitman arm is on the left, therefore fitting th RHD box on the left side chassis rail provides you with what you need .

    you can mount the either on top of the rail or as near a s damit in the stock A location with very minor tweaks to the chassis .

    The boxes are reasonably small, about the size of an F1 but a lot prettier if you need to mount it on show as they are aluminium . The columns are pretty short but that's easy fixed .
     
  28. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland

    I think I could come up with an early Econoline steering box too. They also are side steer and much smaller than even a F100, like I mentioned with my '64. So I've been looking into that. But your idea is one I certainly have not looked into. I will. I'm sure there's lost of small boxes that would work, if you knew what to try. I could open the check book and buy whatever, but I'd rather not spend $500, or even close. Thanks!
     
  29. PetesPonies
    Joined: Nov 6, 2007
    Posts: 402

    PetesPonies
    Member
    from Maryland


    So I guess this isn't what you mean . . since this won't work :)
     

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  30. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 1,011

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just someone who knows when to shut the fuck up and take advice from people who know better than me, especially if I asked for it. Good luck with your build.
     
    badshifter, alchemy, RICH B and 3 others like this.

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