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Technical AV8 parts compatability?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Aaron D., Nov 28, 2015.

  1. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 1,012

    Aaron D.
    Member

    Hi guys, I was hoping some of you could help me figure out if these parts are compatible with each other. I don't have a machine shop in my garage, just basic tools, welder, torch and other common items. Please be easy on me, I'm a newbie. I have gone through the Tardel/Bishop book but they don't mention some of these parts. Thanks.

    Model A chassis.

    Front end:
    34 front axle and wishbone.
    36 spindles
    F100 brake backing plates, hubs and drums.
    model A spring

    Rear end:
    37-39 radius rods
    Model A rear end, torque tube and drive shaft.
    32 rear end
    Model A spring

    Tardel K member
    39 trans
    EAC Merc flathead
    F100 steering box
    32 pedals
    35 ford wheels
     
  2. woodypecker
    Joined: Jan 23, 2011
    Posts: 300

    woodypecker
    Member

    One item to look out for is that there are two 32 rear ends. Early one is like model, late one is like 33 and 34. Merc flathead will need truck half bell to mate to 39 trans. I am missing many things but the experts will correct me.
     
  3. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,800

    flatford39
    Member

    Most everything is "compatible" with your build...the big question is what is your skill set. You seem to have enough tools equipment to make it all work.
     
  4. Check the fit of the '35 Ford wire wheels and the F100 hub and drums. I don't think they will fit without a very thick spacer. I am confused about the rear end? Where did the 37-39 radius rods and the 32 rear end come in? Why not just run all Model A?

    Charlie Stephens
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015

  5. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 1,012

    Aaron D.
    Member

    Thanks Charlie, that's some of my question. Will a model A rear end, radius rods, torque tube and drive shaft work with everything else? Will the A drive shaft/torque tube mount up to the 39 tranny? These are all parts I can get for my build. I want to make sure I'm buying stuff I can use.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  6. coonpiss
    Joined: Aug 22, 2013
    Posts: 155

    coonpiss
    Member
    from NW Indiana

    Charlie is 100% correct on the 35 wires and f-100 drums. I just went through the same issue a couple weeks back. Rather than getting the thick adapter and messing with a lot of other things I opted to go with 40 wheels.
     
  7. Yes, the Model A rear will work. Back in the day I had a similar set up, flatty, '39 trans and Model A rear. It held up just fine until I got stupid.
     
  8. The complete Model A rear end will work with the '39 (your latest post said '30 but I assume you meant '39) transmission. As the previous post said, don't get stupid. You will need the right clam shell to go over the U joint (think the '39 will work). The '32 rear end has the spring behind the axle and you would have to relocate it or lengthen your frame. Too much work and no gain (it is basically the same internally as a Model A, no stronger) I am not sure what you would do with the '37-'39 radius rods? Any plans on how to get the '32 pedals to work with a hydraulic master cylinder? I hope someone will chime in about using a pre '48 flathead as it is shorter but I don't know all of the details.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  9. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 4,339

    rusty rocket
    Member

    I think I would go with a later model rear end like a forty. That way you would have juice brakes and a bit stouter gear.
     
  10. This might be a good time to ask if Aaron is planning to run fenders (which would require narrowing the '40 rear end). In any case the torque tube/drive shaft would need to be shortened on the '40.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  11. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 4,339

    rusty rocket
    Member

    Your correct on the drive shaft shortening. I didnt think about fenders, everytime I think av8 I think hiboy.
     
  12. bct
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
    Posts: 3,099

    bct
    Member

    36 spindles are odd too.
     
  13. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 1,012

    Aaron D.
    Member

    Thanks for the replies. You guys answered a lot for me, and helped with my decisions.
    The plan is to build a fenderless highboy.
    I was planning on repositioning the 32 pedal brake arm to the bottom, then make a bracket for the master cylinder.
    Thanks again.
    Aaron
     
  14. lodaddyo
    Joined: May 5, 2002
    Posts: 1,206

    lodaddyo
    Member

    You dont have to use a 32 k member. 48-52 ford f-1 truck trans crossmember and pedals work great too. Lots of people have used that combo here. Alot cheaper too.
    Richard and Dennis Lacey at the early v8 garage will have the right parts for you to put hydraulic brakes on 36 spindles. http://www.earlyv8garage.net
     

  15. Aaron,

    Card1 039.jpg Card1 038.jpg Card1 029.jpg For your info here is how I installed the master cylinder in my ’32. I have a stock K member. I used the stock pedals without modification. I started by bolting a steel plate to the rear of the K member. Symmetrical bolt patterns are nice but I used original bolt locations to avoid drilling new holes. Next I welded a piece of about 4 inch square structural tubing to the plate facing to the rear of the car. At the back I welded a vertical piece to mount the master cylinder. I shaped the rear to accommodate bearing blocks for the shaft that would hold the levers for rods that came from the original pedal assembly and went to the push rod for the master cylinder. The length of the levers were sized to match the levers on a 1940 brake pedal assembly. I made a cut out in the bottom to insert the ’39-’48 Ford master cylinder and a cut out in the top to check the fluid. I relocated the battery to a mirror image location on the K member. The master fluid level can be checked through the original battery cover in the floor.


    Charlie Stephens
     
    CTAV8 likes this.
  16. Bader2
    Joined: May 19, 2014
    Posts: 1,143

    Bader2

    Rear does not need to be narrowed to run fenders. Mine is a stock 38 rear( same width as 40) spring behind axle,model a spring on a lengthened a frame. 16x5 wheels,7.50 -16 stones. No figment problems what so ever. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1448875946.734991.jpg
     
  17. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 1,012

    Aaron D.
    Member

  18. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,234

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't buy the 36 spindles. Get some 40 style or 48 style. They will allow the F-1 brakes to bolt on with a simple bearing and seal swap.

    You can use the stock A rearend as said above, just get yourself a 30's to 40's clamshell to hold it to the transmission. It won't be as strong as the later V8's, but you shouldn't be a leadfoot with a 32 or other V8 banjo rear anyway. Plus the bolt-in-ability of the A rearend is better for a beginner. Later juice brakes from 39 through 48 will bolt on the A rear axle.

    I also think you would save yourself over a thousand dollars by using an F-1 center crossmember and pedal set instead of the Tardel K and a 32 pedal set. And the result will probably be more user friendly in the end. Those 32 pedals and rear trans mounts are expensive. And F-1 stuff is usually cheap. There are a couple threads showing how a guy has installed an F-1 crossmember somewhere on the HAMB.
     
    patmanta likes this.
  19. bct
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
    Posts: 3,099

    bct
    Member

  20. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,746

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    I'm running 39 wide five up front now, but originally I was using a full F1 setup. You're likely best off using the F100 spindles depending on what axle you're running. The spindles will work with your hubs as designed. They should work fine on an un-dropped axle and possibly be cheaper to get a hold of. They should fit the 34 axle. I think I had my F1's mounted on both my A axle and my 36 axle at some point.

    Spring is fine.
    http://www.droppedaxles.com/FORD_AXLES.html#TXTOBJ7D8165132C1D31

    I don't know about the 37-39 rods, do they measure out the same as your A rods? I've never compared them and all I have is sets of A, 40, & 47 rods in my pile. But if I was running a V8 through an A rear, I would look to strengthening the rear rods for sure; the A rods are considerably weaker than any of the later rods. I would at least weld some angle iron to the length of the back of them.

    Just run the A rear. You can mount juice plates to it. @BenLeBlanc is setting his up by inverting the plates with the cylinders on bottom. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1930-ford-coupe-project.954246/page-9#post-11152013

    As for the rest, mount that K member and trans, etc. Then get some pictures and show us where you're at. You've got the bell/collar for it, yes? Should fit right in BUT mind your water pumps. The Mercs had an angle to them. Bob Drake sells brand new new truck style pumps with flat mounts on them for cheaper than a rebuild or core charge at NAPA. An 8ba/EAB/EAC block will probably want to sit higher than the top of your A rails, FYI. Ford actually made spacers/risers for retrofitting these blocks as replacements into earlier V8 cars. Currently I've got bolt-in mounts in my frame and had to make offset spacers. I'm going to be revising this setup entirely when I get my F1 crossmember fully installed.
    You can see my mess here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...build-preliminary.751582/page-7#post-10993883

    You may want to search on 8ba info since that seems to be the most common occurrence and mention of that generation Flathead block.

    Get some 40 wheels, 35's may be more trouble than they're worth unless you get some adapter plates for them.

    F100 steering box should install somewhat similarly to the F1, but I see them on top of the rail more often. You'll want to get your engine where it needs to go then see what you can do, then figure out your headers.
     
  21. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 1,012

    Aaron D.
    Member

    Thanks Pat, you have helped a lot.
     
    patmanta likes this.
  22. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,746

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    Sure, happy to. I know enough to be dangerous at least.
     
  23. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 4,339

    rusty rocket
    Member

    Thats a Goddamn Kool Ass Car
     
    King ford likes this.
  24. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,469

    King ford
    Member
    from 08302

    ....yep!
     
  25. Model A Gomez
    Joined: Aug 26, 2006
    Posts: 1,492

    Model A Gomez
    Member

    A Model A rearend will work, the later radius rods would have to be modified. On the front end the 34 spring mounts ahead of the axle and will change the wheelbase, the wishbone is different. 36 spindles are small and square and any of the pre 48 spindles have to be modified to run the F1 brakes. You have to modify the inner bearing race and grind the top of the spindle to clear the backing plate. The 35 wires won't fit without a spacer as said earlier and there is a small spacer required to run them on 40 - 48 brakes, it supports the center of the wheel where the studs are. My avatar is a 28 with a flathead, 39 trans, Model A rearend and a 4" dropped axle with 48 brakes all around. Building a 30 Sport Coupe now set up about the same but an 8BA flathead with a truck adapter.
     
  26. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,746

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    34 is still a spring over year. Spring ahead started in 35 with the new frame used up to 1940. But otherwise, agreed.

    [​IMG]
     
  27. The general rule to remember is that all Old Ford parts are compatible - except the ones that you have...
     
    patmanta and coonpiss like this.
  28. What did you need to do to get the 8BA to fit? I have always heard they are longer than the pre 48 engines and a few tricks were needed.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  29. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 1,012

    Aaron D.
    Member

    Great info Gomez, thanks.
    Too funny Blackjack!
     
  30. lodaddyo
    Joined: May 5, 2002
    Posts: 1,206

    lodaddyo
    Member

    Im using an 8ba in my av8 build. Im using a fan and pulley off a 37 flathead that mounted to a generator. I cut the front pulley off my crank pulley and im gonna use one drive belt instead if 2. Should give me enough room without having to clearance the firewall
     

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