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History Auto racing 1894-1944

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,512

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    I assumed those were practice runs, maybe. I also note that when the roadster re-appears later on it's wearing a number (8) that wasn't present before.
     
  2. Track Rod
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 9

    Track Rod
    Member

    I have found where Ralph Hankinson promoted 14 different racing programs between June 5th and October 16th of 1926, mostly in the northeastern U.S. These races were sanctioned by the National Motors Contest Board whose onsite representative was Earl Newberry. Among the more prominent drivers that appeared in most of the races in this series were Billy Wynn and Bob Robinson. I haven’t been able to locate any other promoters of N.M.C.A. races except Hankinson and I have not been able to locate any races sanctioned by that body either before, or after this series of races in 1926. Can anyone tell me more about the National Motors Contest Board? Thanks for your help.
     
  3. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 711

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Ralph Hankinson broke with the IMCA at the end of the 1925 season, and had his "circus" running under the name of National Motor Contest Board for 1926 before he affiliated with the AAA in 1927. Bob Robinson was the star driver of his troupe, along with Doug Wallace and youngsters Billy Winn and Jimmy Patterson, and they all changed allegiance along with him. When I'm home, I can add a bit more flesh to the story of the NMCB. Meanwhile, here's http://forums.autosport.com/topic/148375-reading-fairgrounds-pennsylvania/#entry7640759 a bit of background about Hankinson, IMCA, AAA and the times. :)
     
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  4. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,871

    Bluto
    Member

    Here is the racing mask of an old friend that raced pre-war IMCA Fairground Horsetracks
    BATTLE READY! MEN!!!

    mask1 copy.jpg mask2 copy.jpg
     
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  5. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 711

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    I realize I don't have that much on the NMCB.

    Dates and meetings:
    June 5, Mount Holly/NJ
    June 12, Ormstown/Quebec
    July 3, North Adams/MA
    July 5, North Adams/MA
    August 17, Rome/NY
    August 20, Saint Johnsbury/VT
    August 28, White River Junction/VT
    September 6 pp to 7, Paxtang/PA
    September 11, Rutland/VT (?)
    September 17, Altamont/NY (??)
    September 18, Altamont/NY (??)
    Septemebr 18, Reading/PA
    October 2, Hanover/PA
    October 9, York/PA
    October 16, Greensboro/NC
    * Altamont events are questionable, more likely sanctioned by local club Dirt Track Drivers Association

    Main drivers:
    Bob Robinson
    Doug Wallace
    Fred "Swede" Yonally
    Billy Winn
    Jimmy Patterson
    Mack (Jack?) McClure
    Tony (Ben?) Galliano
    Toots Campos (Campo?)
    Jimmy Nordi (Laranzano?)
    Harry Davies
    Bob Riff

    Most of the drivers were from Kansas City/MO or thereabouts, except Robinson who was from Florida, Wallace from Tennessee and Riff from New York; some were typically listed with fake hometowns, such as Torino or Milan for Galliano, Campos and Nordi, also Minneapolis for Yonally or Indianapolis for Wallace, Los Angeles for Robinson. Cars were typical dirt track racers for the day, Dodge, Essex, Chrysler and Fronty Specials, a Duesenberg, Hisso, one or two (American) Fiats. Hippodromed? Possibly, but not necessarily. Most of the better drivers did well in AAA events 1927 and later, some like Robinson, Winn or Patterson even excelled.
     
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  6. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 2,910

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    RE : The Pikes Peak film. What's with the whitewall tires on the sprint vars?
     
  7. Looking for any info I can find on the following race car frame that came into the shop this week. Here is what we know so far:
    Circa 1948, built by the Bowman(r)? & Marks Tank & valve company, address unknown
    Built for or by Tommy Concannon of NYC. He raced for years in the area.
    Possible input from Zora Duntov
    We think that it was powered by a 60 V8 as there is little room for anything else. No witness marks anywhere of brakes, gas pedal, gauges etc. The owner thinks that it was test driven around the parking lot and then torn down, never used after???? The owner today has had it in storage for over 20 years. He wants it built as it may have been for a collection piece.
    100_6229.JPG
    100_6222.JPG 100_6223.JPG 100_6224.JPG 100_6225.JPG 100_6228.JPG 100_6227.JPG 100_6226.JPG
     
  8. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,871

    Bluto
    Member

    Look closely at the belt..... all have a date printed on the webbing.

    The lightning holes a interesting as the save almost no weight. Easier to get the dive to diet a couple days :)

    My thought is don't race after Thanksgiving Dinner!!:rolleyes:

    THANKS.jpg

     
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  9. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 143

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

  10. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 143

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    This and previous post from the book Specials by John Bolster 1949 Scan3.jpg
     
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  11. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,952

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    That looks pretty SPECIAL!
     
  12. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,166

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Holy Cow! do those tires look woefully inadequate for 5000 cubic inches of motivation.
     
  13. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,871

    Bluto
    Member

    Please look at the tire size on any land speed racing car. This isn't drag racing but about top speed only.
     
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  14. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,952

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    Where would the driver's ears be? Are there more pictures of this thing? Any history?
     
  15. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,871

    Bluto
    Member

  16. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 9,873

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    I always thought that the tires used in LSR were made not only for light weight and minimum rolling resistance, but more importantly, constructed in such a way that they wouldn't disintegrate from the huge centrifugal forces created at ultra high speeds - especially when the speeds were higher than those achieved by modern super cars, the fastest circuit racers, or even jet aircraft. Same goes for the wheels, brakes, bearings, etc., eh? Gary
     
  17. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 22,530

    The37Kid
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    [​IMG]Drivers ears are in front of both rear engines. As Bulto suggested do a Google search using Ray Keech (Indy 500 Winner) and Triplex LSR car and Daytona Beach. Merry Christmas!


    Bob
     
  18. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 22,530

    The37Kid
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    True, they were so costly they used cheaper tires as rollers during the build. Race tires were used on Race Day.


    Bob Bob
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  19. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,871

    Bluto
    Member

    I hope everyone understands..... I write large cause I have vision problems

    AND

    Google image search is n honestly wonderful resource It's ALWAYS my default setting for REAL Answers quickly Pictures are INDEED with 1000's of words

    Also rather better than an EBay search when your looking to but something.

    Hence my comment.
     
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  20. Tom S
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 3

    Tom S
    Member

    On the side of his head.
     
  21. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,871

    Bluto
    Member

    And his face was burned so bad by over heated coolant that he couldn't make a return run. The replacement driver and a Pathe News Cameraman died when they tried to make the next atempt. The photos the mess are on that Google Image Search too.

    I can still remember when we had to take up a collection for new racing tires ... After we won enough races companies started to give us tires, oil, sparkplugs and so much more.
     
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  22. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,948

    jimdillon
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    With three Liberty engines the noise must have been deafening. In the 80s I stopped at Lake Tahoe on my way back west and when I checked in I heard some absolutely great noise. I asked the girl at the desk and she told me there were vintage boat racers in town for some boat festival. Turns out the really loud boats were the 1650 c.i. Libertys. Some of the best noise I have ever heard-they are really loud. I stayed an extra day just to watch and listen. I had a spare Liberty and sold it in the 90s. It allegedly was bought and resold to go in a boat. Glad it got some use. Even my little 299 Liberty is loud. Used to run it in my shop and my neighbors would all come over and enjoy the noise. Peter De Paolo said in an interview that he could always tell when his Uncle Ralph (De Palma) came around to the front stretch at Sheepshead Bay since it was the loudest car on the track (299 in 1918 I believe-maybe 1919).

    As to the tires, like then and now they were one of the real limiting factors on how fast you could go. Tire technology may have been a step behind the speeds they could travel (at least safely).
     
  23. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,166

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    That was why when I saw the relatively diminutive size of those tires holding up three Liberty engines I thought they looked kinda borderline too small. I didn't think the car was a dragster.
     
  24. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,948

    jimdillon
    Member

    Most of the tires were not very wide back then and sizes were not as plentiful as today but the limiting factor had as much to do with tire composition more than anything IMO. Sometimes then and now you have to try and separate fact from fiction and reality from marketing. In the late 20s while Keech was running on the beach in Florida for the record in April of 1928 (he ended up setting a record of 207+), Frank Lockhart was also trying to set land speed records with his Blackhawk. He and Keech and others had some pretty good stones to run the speeds they were running. Lockhart paid the ultimate price when his Miller engine Stutz Blackhawk crashed end over end at over 200mph when his right rear tire blew. Whether you can blame tire composition in and of itself may not be warranted as he had earlier skidded at speed with his right rear tire locked up for a portion of the braking and it may have damaged it and added to the deterioration. Whatever tires were surely not as good as many of the drivers (and owners) wished they were, more than likely.
     
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  25. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,166

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    You raise another question Jim. What material did they use for casing construction back then? Rayon? Nylon? Surely not steel.

    My bicycle racer son has some new ultra lightweight race tires for his insanely light and expensive race bikes and they are using cotton for cords which is not very durable but saves a few grams of tire weight. What was the high tech tire material secret back then?

    I study every picture posted and scrutinize its detail in an effort to learn about racing in those days. Tires grabbed my attention on that pic.
     
  26. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,952

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    Sorry to bother you. I was under the impression that the purpose of a forum was to share information not to send the participants out on individual google searches and then for them keep their information secret from the other users.
     
  27. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 22,530

    The37Kid
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Six Ball, I posted a few related names to use in a Google search on the Triplex LSR car, as an aide in your search for more info. Hope I didn't come across as being out of line, it wasn't my intention. The more info that is shared the better, I'd never see the rear view of the car under construction, very nice to see it posted here. Bob
     
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  28. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,952

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    No, not at all that is exactly what I was asking for. Thanks!
    I never stop being amazed at the lengths gone to in the quest for speed and the seeming limitless supply of guys willing to risk all to pilot these things. Progress on the speed side comes with a flash inspiration in someones mind. Progress on the safety side comes only after a tragedy that happened in a flash.
     
  29. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 4,871

    Bluto
    Member

    Six
    I did a very simple search and found exactly what you wanted first time. I supplied you with the exact address to answer your question. I believe it is everyones job here to not only ask questions but also answers if they are so very easy to find.

    The title in RED is your guide to answers you asked for. It's the old "Teach a man to fish....'' story.


    Flyer
    In the 20's there were no real exotic fibers. There was cotton and natural rubber. There is a photo with Firestone neatly lettered on the sidewall. The made a lot off Indy car tires but I can't see if they are smooth or treaded in that photo to establish if they change tires from previous photos. Again, as with Six you may get all the answers you like by simply searching. Not only that but you can answers that not only satisfy your question but share them here with others too.


    Guys I'm down to 40% vision from perfect vision for almost 70 years... I type on a large type keyboard with yellow keys. I must type over and over again to correct my errors.
    Please excuse me if I sound short in my answers but extra words are a luxury difficult for me to justify given the effort required just write at all. One letter at a time and pecked out with one finger ... I honestly thing that real help is to guide people to the way to answer questions is maybe even more important than taking an hour or two to repeat info found so easily to you all.
    When I can no longer post I'd like to think I've help others how to find the answers and carry on.

     
  30. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 1,948

    jimdillon
    Member

    Greg sorry I did not see your post until now. I believed that the cords were actually made of cotton during this era. I believe it may be due to the lack of development with synthetics more than weight. I remember changing all sorts of tires at my grandfather's collection years ago and it seemed that many of them were cotton cords as well. I thought Rayon came out a bit after the 20s but others may know otherwise. In any event the tires were a tad questionable when it came to safety.

    One of my favorite stories was when I interviewed the son of one of Packard's test drivers of the teens (Willard Rader). If my memory is worth anything I believe his name is Frank Rader (have his name in my notes somewhere) and he told me his dad used to test drive cars (including the race cars) at speed until the tires blew (one of the "highlights" of his job) and he lived a pretty long life thankfully. Talk about a guy with a good set of stones.
     
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