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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.


  1. The other way around: the riding mechanic was not belted in; the driver was. The rider was thrown clear; but received a broken pelvis and broken ribs with the resulting collapsing lung. The belted driver went all the way around with the car. He has numerous broken bones and internal injuries; the most serious being a torn blood vessel which took about 40 units of blood before it could be stopped. Had it not been for the first responders and expert surgeons in the Salinas hospital a few miles away; he'd not be with us today.

    Though it IS mandated in the vintage racing organizations we run with, that all cars be fitted with current (within 5 years of manufacture) seat belts; the members of the group of pre-world war one cars, of which the Packard was one, would undo their belts as they entered the event on the pace lap. In this case the driver didn't (or forgot) to undo his belt. This they say because there are no roll bars on the big lumbering cars. This is an age old conundrum. Do you want stay with the car; or do you want to be thrown clear? In this case it would nave been better had the diver been thrown clear.

    Thus, as I write this there is an ongoing discussion with the sanctioning race clubs (and probably insurers of them). The talks being: Should the rules be changed to "race cars without roll bars be prohibited from having seatbelts; and those with roll bars be required belts?
     
  2. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,163

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    I'm going to catch a LOT of flak for this, & I'm not trying to be a "smart-ass", but to put things in perspective for the "traditional crowd", when you review the history of racing, & especially the early years :"Death is a Traditional Occurence, like it or not!" Nobody's ever said these cars were safe, not even the current ones!
     
    Old Dawg and Speedwrench like this.
  3. Exactly! There isn't an event that goes by that I don't have to tell some "wag": "these cars were very dangerous ninety years ago; and they didn't get any safer! BE2019.jpg "
     
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  4. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,163

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Thank you OLD DAWG : I knew You'd understand what I meant!
     
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  5. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 2,781

    jimdillon
    Member

    It is a sad deal and I hope they have full recovery. I have been a passenger in several old racecars and they are exhilarating on one hand but when they get up around 70 they seem like you are flying and you know in a moment that they are dangerous. The older ones a clumsy feel to an extent but even the newer ones hold your attention. The day before Lagonda Joe Harding delivered the Lagonda he did (I think 38ish) to Jay Leno we went for a terrifying ride I will never forget. Dangerous cars without a doubt.
     
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  6. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 2,781

    jimdillon
    Member

    I am amazed at the guts (for lack of a more descriptive word) of the drivers and mechanicians during the two man era. I have taken several spirited rides in Greg Dawson's 1916 Packard racer (now in the Gilmore). In doing research there are stories of how the riding mechanics would tuck under the dash in the event that they "turned turtle". There actually is pretty good room under the dash and I have taken note of that when I went for rides. No guarantees of course but back in the golden era it probably helped some guys keep the grim reaper at bay for a while.
     
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  7. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 2,683

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    I may have posted this here before. Pretty graphic don't watch if racing wreck upset you.
     
  8. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,729

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I like that pic of the Gilmore Special. The fact that the driver has a 5-point harness, arm restraints, and a roll bar doesn't diminish my appreciation for the old car nor taint my admiration for the courage of the guy driving it.
     
  9. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 2,781

    jimdillon
    Member

    I located a picture of the perspective from the mechanics point of view of the area under the dash of Greg's 1916 Packard racer. 16_Packard_Twin_Six_Rcr_DV-06-MDB_i01.jpg
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  10. Apparently I almost got to test all those accouterments at Laguna Seca a week and a half ago. When going into "The Corkscrew" my left front wheel hit Ivan Zaremba's Hudson Railton's left rear. According to the guy I'd just passed, my car went up in the air (as is usual when two open wheel cars connect). When I came down, the wheel hit the Railton's exhaust, breaking the engines manifold. Ivan later told me that he didn't know who or what hit him. I was closing on him near 30 mph faster' My car ended up going down the racing line, thru the Turn. I went back into the paddock area; and reported the incident to "Black Flag". Frankly, I think all that "Safety Equipment" that I have on that car is for "The Piece of Mind" for my wife. I don't really believe that the roll bar (for example) would withstand a vicious "endo" (that the car is capable of doing)!
     
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  11. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,729

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I was planning on making mine more substantial... sr_078.jpg
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  12. In my humble opinion, a roll bar set up needs have strength in all axis'! Which essentially means a rollcage. That would most certainly obliterate the looks and style of any pre-war race car design.
     
  13. jroberts
    Joined: Oct 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,568

    jroberts
    Member

    WOW! I cannot believe the number of drivers/mechanics that actually got out of some of those cars after the accident. Amazing.
     
  14. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 2,683

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    It is amazing how much the human body can take and sometimes how little.
     
  15. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,772

    banjeaux bob
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    from alaska

  16. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,729

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I love the plume of steam coming off the radiator cap.
     
  17. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,772

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  18. Antic Auto
    Joined: Sep 12, 2019
    Posts: 1

    Antic Auto

    Hello,

    Here is a message from a French member of your forum. I am trying to identify this (racing ?) car with number 1.

    This picture was taken in 1908 in France, in Auvours (suburb of le Mans) when French car constructor Léon Bollée invited Wilbur Wright to fly his Flyer III A in Europe.

    I think this picture was taken in Auvours but I have no certitude, especially regarding the registration number.

    Does anyone here can help to identify this car ?

    Thank you very much Resized_20190911_140205_6189.jpg
     
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  19. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,163

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Have there been any updates on the recent Laguna Seca incident with the 1912 Packard? How are the occupants doing , hopefully well on their way to recovery!!
     
  20. The report about ten days ago said that the rider was up and going through physical therapy. The driver is in an induced coma. Physicians are treating him for pneumonia and fungal infection. All of us have our fingers crossed.
     
  21. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,163

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    I inquired as to their condition only because usually we hear about an incident, then "nothing but crickets" as far as updates. I hope for their recovery, as rapidly as possible, but realize that their survival after an incident like this one is both nearly "a miracle", & a tribute to current medical science!!
     
    Old Dawg likes this.
  22. I totally agree! Even as the 1st respondors (EMT's) at the track had the where-for-all to resuscitate and stabilize the driver before the ambulance came. Not too long ago he would've been "Pronounced Dead". The staff at the nearby hospital (so close there was no need for the helicopter) is the best in treating such trauma in the region. Again, I say the challenge is now keeping Jim, the driver, out of danger from infection.
     
  23. I'm not sure how to put this into perspective. Here we are talking about an accident in vintage racing where the driver is in critical condition and the riding mechanic is in rehab. On the other hand, it was less than three weeks ago that, in an accident at a Formula 2 race at Spa, Belgium, a driver died at the scene and another driver is now in an induced coma as an aid to coping with a respiratory problem. My point is merely to support what others have said. Racing is dangerous no matter the series or the venue. We can be thankful that the occurrences of death and/or serious injury is considerably less now than even a few years ago.
     
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  24. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,772

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  25. Brian Blain, the owner of the 1912 Packard just posted this:

    Jim and Paet update 9/14/19


    "Paet is now at home in Visalia but still spending most of his time in a wheelchair. He is now moving at turtle speed instead of a snail’s pace. He still has a lot of pain but is improving daily. He went by to see the race car for the first time today and was amazed that the car was in much better shape than either he or Jim. He is able to work from home (he is the CEO of an off-road performance manufacturing company) with the help of computer and cell phone.


    Jim is still in ICU in Salinas but is slowly improving. He is now breathing through a trachea tube and has been able to disconnect the respirator for 30 minutes and breathe on his own. The rest of the day they alternate between a CPAP or a respirator machine that does about 75% of the breathing for him. He is on a feeding tube but not getting enough nutrition. His liver is still leaking so he is scheduled to go to Cedars Sinai (Stanford and USC turned him away) for surgery next week to fix the leaking liver and install a better feeding tube. We have been told that he will return to Salinas to recuperate after surgery.


    He is able to tolerate sitting up (with help) for about 30 minutes a day but is exhausted after doing so. He can move his limbs when asked to and does a little physical therapy every day. He can communicate by shaking or nodding his head and seems to understand most everything he hears. He is uncomfortable, but isn’t in any pain, unless he is being messed with, and isn’t regularly taking any pain meds. One lung is working well, but the other is still leaking air. They have tried to take a couple MRI’s to check for spine damage, but he has retained so much fluid that they can’t get a clear image. Based on the lack of pain when sitting up, it doesn’t appear that there is any serious spine damage. His pneumonia has returned but is being controlled by anti-biotics.

    All things considered, he has made a huge improvement since the accident, but still has a long way to go.


    Thanks for your thoughts and prayers. They are working."
     
    Hamtown Al likes this.
  26. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,729

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    That is a chilling update. I will pray for them both.
     
    Hamtown Al likes this.
  27. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

  28. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,772

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    69720576_10156926300109032_5700976504507203584_n.jpg From the Polish National Archives
     
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  29. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 2,683

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    What are the tracks for? Did they race trains there? How did the y pass?
     
  30. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,913

    noboD
    Member

    The picture IS from Poland, shouldn't that explain it?
     

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