The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.
Many successful automobile salesmen also doubled as race drivers in local, unsanctioned races run in the U.S. early in the 1900s. The old adage, “Win on Sunday; sell on Monday” was never truer. Carl E. Evans was a good example of just that kind of automobile man: http://KansasRacingHistory.com/tripod/Evans.htm
Your research is terrific Bob! It is astounding how the sport of automobile racing flourished in Kansas 100 years ago. Thank you for preserving this history, and for sharing it on your wonderful website. I have been a big fan of your site for many years.
I agree. There are not enough people around to document and save valuable racing data such as you have done. Kudos.
I agree, thanks. There is far more on this thread than I can get my head around. You and others have put together a valuable resource by posting little known information and tying it to the more well known sources. If it were only pictures it would be great but the history behind almost every picture is priceless.
It's great to see that you all like it.
Anyone going to Milwaukee this weekend? What about Goodwood? While both of those are on my bucket list, I got an invite to smell the Eucalyptus in Hillsborough. I've heard a lot of nice things about that event, and am looking forward to it. I'm also going to try to make it to Plymouth at the end of the month. Anyone here hitting the big shows this summer?
Dumb question probably, but have there been any American race cars that ran ifs during the 20's and 30's? I believe Miller did to some degree, but not sure... if anyone has images I appreciate during this bit of curiosity.
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Yes there were. I was in the American museum of Speed (Lincoln NE) yesterday and saw at least one. It was based off an early Ford center section. The bell ends had been removed and stub shafts and carriers and hubs were all hand fabbed. I forgot the maker and other details but I did look the FWD axle over closely.
The Millers and other FWD cars of that time were typically of a De Dion design and weren't technically IFS as the wheels didn't move independently of each other. One car that comes to mind is the car built by Lee Oldfield for the 1937 Indy 500. The first rear engine car entered in the 500 and it does appear to have had true IFS as well as IRS of swing axle design. The car didn't qualify for the 500 and as far as I know never raced anywhere else. FWIW
^^^^^^^ We call them wishbones or radius rods, the four of them on the Lee Oldfield car are off a 1937 era Packard. Bob
A couple of west coast midgets purportedly built in the 1930s.
Thanks for those pictures. I'd seen the first one before, but not the other two. In August/September 1937 Oldfield seems to have tried to interest British buyers in it as a possible Brooklands Outer Circuit car. For which it might very well have been suitable. The Motor (London) had published a rather disparaging article about it and Oldfield wrote to the magazine defending it. Motor Sport also picked up on it and you can find their thoughts here:
That should be read in the context that:
(1) There was virtually nowhere you'd be able to race a 6 litre car in 1938 - it would have been eligible only for South American, Irish, South African or Australian road races, the occasional Formule Libre race at Montlhéry or a Brooklands Outer Circuit handicap. And - in theory - at AVUS.
(2) Motor Sport was relentlessly pro-Brooklands, even in the face of the fact that the place was effectively redundant and that nobody with any sense risked decent machinery on the Outer Circuit any more.
Check out the Extinct Car thread here on the HAMB, the Cornelian above and Birmingham are featured. Bill Smith has the Cornelian INDY 500 car in the Speedway Collection. Bob
Rootie and 37, is that the unrestored racer sitting in the back of the truck at Speedy Bill's?
No, The Fronty DO on the T truck is the ex Floyd Clymer, Crazy Chris Egsguard car. My friend Pete Wing based this painting on that car, it is on the wall to the right of me. Bob
OK, I know your memory is better then mine. Hershey is just around the corner.
https://www.museumofamericanspeed.com/1914cornelian.html I really like Googol ! Bob
Looking at the original Cornelian photos were there two cars, or the same car with #10 and #27 at different times? I like the wheels on #27 better.
Rack & pinion steering with a chain & sprocket. Bob
I believe the #10, and the #27 were the same car. Note that the photo of the #10 on pit lane has a spare tire on the rear of the body. This may have been from a test session before the 500. The car was probably driven to the track from Kalamazoo.
Somewhere in my files I have data on a Cornelian running races in Wisconsin.
I owned the "Riverside Special" Fronty carried on the 1925 Model TT Fronty powered truck. I sold that car and truck to Speedy Bill. It ended up being the last car he purchased. Bill was an old horse trader and the deal was never done until in his mind he bested you. It was an honor and a privilege to do a deal with Bill. After the sale and delivery Bill gave me a personal guided tour of the museum and warehouses. My experience with Speedy Bill is one I will remember as long as I'm on this earth.
Thanks for the history on the "Riverside Special" I think it found the perfect home, thanks for being its caretaker. I got to see in back in 1974 or so when Chris "stored" it outside under a tarp in Woodland Hills. There was a MILLER marine engine in the barn, his broken BB RAJO Shell Hill car, a two man INDY car literally scattered around the field. We were driving a Model A Ford Speedster and toured every shop he knew. Took me 40 years to locate the car, and it can't be bought, but I'll always remember riding around in it. Bob
A little gem that was at Hillsborough last weekend.
To sort of break up the lull in postings on this page, I thought that I would send along a link to what I've been working on lately. Earl Hovenden, Sr. competed in quite a number of races sanctioned by A.A.A. until he was suspended by them in 1931. I don't have a single photo of him, or any of his cars though. If you know of any, please let me know about them: http://KansasRacingHistory.com/tripod/Hovenden.htm
Did you try Latimore, EMMR. Eastern Museum of Motor Racing. They have LOTS of pictures in the library.
"Did you try Latimore, EMMR. Eastern Museum of Motor Racing. They have LOTS of pictures in the library."
No, I haven't but I live halfway across the country from there.
The Whitney Straight Duesenberg in the Brooklands museum. Lapped the track at 138mph.
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